Ole

LvG got sacked just minutes after winning a trophy, of course.

Or have things changed and overall performance counts for less now?

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

LvG got sacked just minutes after winning a trophy, of course.

Or have things changed and overall performance counts for less now?

he was sacked because he spent 250 million quid and didn't get into the champions league.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

he was sacked because he spent 250 million quid and didn't get into the champions league.

He was sacked because Mourinho was available.

He was sacked because he was finished

Originally Posted by dunk

He was sacked because Mourinho was available.

i don't think they're mutually exclusive

Originally Posted by Sparky***

he was sacked because he spent 250 million quid and didn't get into the champions league.

Originally Posted by dunk

He was sacked because Mourinho was available.

A bit of both I reckon. Would have stuck with him for another year had we not drawn a million games that season. And when it was bad, it was painful to watch. Mourinho’s last few months remain rock bottom for me though.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

he was sacked because he spent 250 million quid and didn't get into the champions league.

I know that, my point was how the goalposts are now being moved with regard to the present manager - only actual trophies will now do, apparently.

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

I know that, my point was how the goalposts are now being moved with regard to the present manager - only actual trophies will now do, apparently.

No our owners need the financial stability of the money that the champions league brings. That is their only target. Winning things? That's neither here nor there to them.

They'll be quite happy to invest minimally and scrape top 4 forever and a day. The manager will have designs on trophies and success, but unfortunately the family of vultures above him don't give a flying £#%&! about that.

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

I know that, my point was how the goalposts are now being moved with regard to the present manager - only actual trophies will now do, apparently.

Talk about goalposts moving. Two separate quotes from Ole in the last season or two...


“Any player or any team - and, for us, it’s a new team now that we are building - would benefit from winning a trophy or getting to a final,” explained Ole. “Of course, winning it is major. Now we’ve got a chance to get into the semi-finals and, for us, this game is a big one.

“It’s massive for a player to win his first trophy, no matter which one it is. I remember when Patrice Evra and Nemanja Vidic won their first trophy - I think it was against Wigan in the final.”

“Yeah, of course. You play football to win trophies, to get your hands on trophies. Even though, as soon as you win a trophy you move on to the next one. It gives you the hunger to get more. Of course, the squad is focused and we’re ready to give it a go. I think we’ve prepared well for this game.”

Originally Posted by Mr_Ed

With the words “progress” underneath?

Joke of a quote.

Why?

We’ll see above for starters... he’s lowering expectations.

The table shows that we are 12 points better off than last season where we were 30 odd points behind the league champions.

So we’ve maybe won four more games which is good...

However are we still losing games against teams who defend deep and get men behind the ball? Yes.

Has our style of play improved? No.

Have we we won many of the games against teams we’d consider to be our direct rivals? 1 out of 7 maybe (although it was a great result).

We can’t win the league this year so we should be prioritising silverware. Even Fergie used to to that in the lean seasons.

So I don’t like his comment and think he’s lowering expectations - at Manchester United.

Well given the fact that what he said was absolutely correct, both logically and materially, maybe you didn’t like it because you didn’t want to.

It’s not lowering expectation in any way to outline the random nature of cup competitions mate. Progress - ie becoming better - makes winning a cup more likely, but winning a cup doesn’t make progress self evident. Why don’t we say the FA cup doesn’t lie unstead of the league? Because clearly it often does.

Originally Posted by Mr_Ed

We’ll see above for starters... he’s lowering expectations.

The table shows that we are 12 points better off than last season where we were 30 odd points behind the league champions.

So we’ve maybe won four more games which is good...

However are we still losing games against teams who defend deep and get men behind the ball? Yes.

Has our style of play improved? No.

Have we we won many of the games against teams we’d consider to be our direct rivals? 1 out of 7 maybe (although it was a great result).

We can’t win the league this year so we should be prioritising silverware. Even Fergie used to to that in the lean seasons.

So I don’t like his comment and think he’s lowering expectations - at Manchester United.

weve lost 4 ..2 against teams who didnt defend deep as one was against 10 for 70 mins and arsenal didnt defend deep .. palace we werent fit . only sheff utd and that was truly a horror show

"However are we still losing games against teams who defend deep"

We've lost one game in 5 months.

Originally Posted by MUFC One Love

Not read every bit of it but he is right trophies can mask the reality.

See Mourinho at United.

If we are finishing in the top 3 regularly and getting to the latter stages or competitions its progress. As Ole said, there is luck involved even down to the draw.

Wasn't long ago we were 6th quite regularly.

Tbf, that is classic moving of the goalposts re Mourinho. He won trophies and in his final full season finished 2nd with one of the highest points totals for 2nd in PL history.

Then Woodward completely failed him in the market and the toys came out of the pram - from both manager and players.

It annoys me when people talk about winning a trophy like all trophies are the same
There are only two trophies that guarantee you to be manager of Utd the following season and those are the Premier League and Champions League

You could win the league cup and the FA Cup (as well as the Europa League) and if you've had a disastrous league campaign then you could still be sacked

He's right about the ego part, look at Jose holding up the 3 fingers after winning the Europa League to make out winning the Europa League, League Cup and the £#%&!ing Community Shield was some sort of treble
Winning those trophies didn't mean anything as it proved afterwards as it was no indication that Utd were getting back to the standard of the top teams in Europe

That being said if Ole can marry winning an FA Cup or Europa League with a strong 2nd place finish in the league then that would be a great springboard into next season

Originally Posted by Mr_Ed

We’ll see above for starters... he’s lowering expectations.

No he’s not, he’s just pointing out what we all know to be true.

The table shows that we are 12 points better off than last season where we were 30 odd points behind the league champions.

We cannot influence what other teams do. We could theoretically be 25 points better off season on season, and still be 30 points behind the champions. Does that mean we haven’t progressed?

So we’ve maybe won four more games which is good...

However are we still losing games against teams who defend deep and get men behind the ball? Yes.

I think if you actually look we’re not losing that many games my friend.

Has our style of play improved? No.

What are you watching? Seriously, what?

Have we we won many of the games against teams we’d consider to be our direct rivals? 1 out of 7 maybe (although it was a great result).

How many did we lose? I would agree we were too cautious in many of those games, but drawing is not losing, and in many of them we had the chances to win, we just didn’t take them.

We can’t win the league this year so we should be prioritising silverware. Even Fergie used to to that in the lean seasons.

That’s easy to say when we look comfortable for top four now, but within three or four games we could be hanging on for dear life if we’re not careful. Then how much shit does he get for turning a nailed on CL spot into another year of Europa? No one’s suggesting we do a Wenger and turn top 4 into a trophy, but as you so begrudgingly admitted, if we are 10-12-14 points better off at the end of the season then that would indicate progress, bring the added revenue of CL, which removes the obstacle of bringing in the players we need and provides a good platform to go from high 70’s to high 80’s and a real challenge.

So I don’t like his comment and think he’s lowering expectations - at Manchester United.

The expectation is progress leading to a proper challenge for the biggest trophies, and he fully embraced it. Pointing out that winning the FA cup, while nice, wouldn’t necessarily be an indicator of progress is just flat out correct, unless you’d like to be where Wigan, Swansea or Birmingham are right now.

.

Originally Posted by Coracao

Tbf, that is classic moving of the goalposts re Mourinho. He won trophies and in his final full season finished 2nd with one of the highest points totals for 2nd in PL history.

Then Woodward completely failed him in the market and the toys came out of the pram - from both manager and players.

Got to the FA cup final too.

Originally Posted by Coracao

Tbf, that is classic moving of the goalposts re Mourinho. He won trophies and in his final full season finished 2nd with one of the highest points totals for 2nd in PL history.

Then Woodward completely failed him in the market and the toys came out of the pram - from both manager and players.

Mourinho was the architect of his own downfall, just like was at Chelsea and will be at Spurs. His inability to adapt to the modern footballer, aligned with a mental disorder that’s getting worse, is going to end up making him unemployable. Had we given him that full third season we probably would had ended up around 8th; it was all going horribly pear-shaped.

Originally Posted by utd99

Mourinho was the architect of his own downfall, just like was at Chelsea and will be at Spurs. His inability to adapt to the modern footballer, aligned with a mental disorder that’s getting worse, is going to end up making him unemployable. Had we given him that full third season we probably would had ended up around 8th; it was all going horribly pear-shaped.

That may well be the case, we will never know. But there is no consistency in actually judging what managers have produced from quite a few on here.

Hopefully if we get 2nd this time, our manager will actually be backed. Last time he wasn't.