erik ten hag

Originally Posted by suedeshoes

So just your usual %@#$&!s then.

How is it %@#$&!s? Claiming ETH needs more time because of what happened at the club in the late 1980s has to be the biggest reach possible. Especially when we are comparing one of the greatest managers in the game to a man whose biggest achievement so far is getting Ajax to the CL semis. As I said above, ETH needs to be judged on his performance - not some misty eyed nostalgia.

He wasn't one of the greatest managers in the game then.

There's a fair bit of bad, a fair bit of good and a fair bit of in-between at the moment. That is reminiscent of the time period I'm taking about.

If we don't learn from the past what do we learn from?

There's nothing misty eyed about it.

Originally Posted by shenwen

How is it %@#$&!s? Claiming ETH needs more time because of what happened at the club in the late 1980s has to be the biggest reach possible.

not compared to the rep circle jerk.

Originally Posted by suedeshoes

So just your usual %@#$&!s then.

those are unlikely to give you a slap. soz.

What does rep circle jerk mean?

Originally Posted by Whip Hubley

again, i'll qualify this by saying there's certainly a lot to criticise ETH about.



but are people really resorting to saying mainoo and garnacho aren't down to him


£#%&!ing hell, good job Fergie got so lucky with the class of 92 eh?

Are you saying Fergie wasn’t lucky that those players all came through together when he was manager?

Obviously the way he managed them and the team and squad and club over many years and cycles was genius. But he didn’t give birth to them, or train them from kids. They literally all came through from the youth and he recognised their immense talent and mindset (which he then undoubtedly went on to bolster and mould etc).

But his job would have been harder if they hadn’t come through and he was lucky they did when they did.

If we had an Beckham Scholes Giggs Neville and Butt in the youth team today Erik would find his job a lot easier next year and he would be lucky to get them. He’s not setup or designed the youth scouting or management ffs.

He deserves a bit of credit for playing Mainoo and Garnacho. It could be argued he's actually over-playing them but that's another matter.

Not sure he can claim any credit for how well they're doing though. They both look like world class prospects because they are world class prospects. Nothing about his coaching or system seems to have made them that way.

With Antony completely failing and Greenwood away, he's had little option but to play Garnacho. With almost no midfield whatsoever we've had to play Mainoo.

He deserves a bit of credit for Hoijland but equally it's criminal that we didn't have a seasoned striker come in to take the pressure off him.

At the end of the day, the fairest way to judge EtH is on the results, the style of play and our general trajectory. Comparing him to SAF or even Arteta is pretty pointless. I don't think any of us truly believe we're on the right path at the moment. The results are dire, the football is worse and there's not really any sign that things are getting better. He's not done anything at all really to justify keeping him past the summer.

I think even EtH would be surprised if he isn't sacked in a couple of months.

Originally Posted by suedeshoes

He wasn't one of the greatest managers in the game then.

There's a fair bit of bad, a fair bit of good and a fair bit of in-between at the moment. That is reminiscent of the time period I'm taking about.

If we don't learn from the past what do we learn from?

There's nothing misty eyed about it.

Er, maybe we should try the present?

Judge a manager on how he performs today rather than tying it to something that happened over 30 years ago with a different person in a very different footballing context? Like I said, apples and oranges.

I think we have to see what happens for the rest of this season.

If the team begins to look more cohesive and we make the CL - he should get another season imo.

If not, it's time for bullet head to get the bullet.

Oh, and he really really needs to start putting pressure on referees like every other manager. Getting shafted by refs game after game without a peep from the manager is not cool.

Originally Posted by suedeshoes

Still fully in. I'm still getting Fergie 89/90 vibes. His plan not fully working, results not the best, some awful performances and he's coming across awkward but there are also some signs that give me hope.

What meds are you on though? And can you get me some?

Originally Posted by shenwen

Er, maybe we should try the present?

The present is informed by the past.

Regardless of what's been said since, some on the United board wanted Ferguson sacked in 1989. They were overruled.

The football and structure looked as fractured and fragmented then as it did now.

There are parallels.

I know it's a different game and time but United is about history and has always looked to the past and people will always be people.

Ten Haag might be wrong, I might be wrong, you might be wrong but seeing as nobody knows, I think it's currently best to see how things go for longer. It could be a lot worse.

Originally Posted by Whip Hubley

again, i'll qualify this by saying there's certainly a lot to criticise ETH about.



but are people really resorting to saying mainoo and garnacho aren't down to him


£#%&!ing hell, good job Fergie got so lucky with the class of 92 eh?

The absolute refusal by certain people to give him any credit, or cut him any slack, is absolutely bizarre. Well, it is until you realise who’s doing it.

Criticising his “pre and post match messaging” now ffs

Originally Posted by redhegemony

Seems far more like Fergie than any of the others we've had in the way he deals with the press and the players. We need someone tough and spikey, I'd prefer action at the present to vision.

Seems an absurdly low bar. Plus is he that tough and spiky? For all his reputation as a disciplinarian, he has managed the least disciplined displays from United that I have ever witnessed.

Originally Posted by Lok

He deserves a bit of credit for playing Mainoo and Garnacho.

Not sure he can claim any credit for how well they're doing though

Originally Posted by Ethers

Like a bull to a red rag.

He has given them game time which is great. But they were always going to be great once they were given game time. They're special players.

Originally Posted by Lok

Like a bull to a red rag.

He has given them game time which is great. But they were always going to be great once they were given game time. They're special players.

So you want to hold him responsible for all the players that aren’t playing well, but he can’t take any credit for the ones that are playing well, because they were going to be great anyway.

Ok. Makes sense.

Originally Posted by Ethers

So you want to hold him responsible for all the players that aren’t playing well, but he can’t take any credit for the ones that are playing well, because they were going to be great anyway.

Ok. Makes sense.

Originally Posted by Ethers

The absolute refusal by certain people to give him any credit, or cut him any slack, is absolutely bizarre. Well, it is until you realise who’s doing it.

Criticising his “pre and post match messaging” now ffs

what else have we got to work with

results are shit, performances are shit, players are going backwards...

I think my expectations fell 20pc but I repressed the knowledge when I learnt has a backwards farmer accent and wasn't a 'dam kid

Originally Posted by Ethers

So you want to hold him responsible for all the players that aren’t playing well, but he can’t take any credit for the ones that are playing well, because they were going to be great anyway.

Ok. Makes sense.

Is that what I said??? Bizarre

Originally Posted by Whip Hubley

again, i'll qualify this by saying there's certainly a lot to criticise ETH about.



but are people really resorting to saying mainoo and garnacho aren't down to him


£#%&!ing hell, good job Fergie got so lucky with the class of 92 eh?

Agreed. We shouldn't overstate it obviously, but he's the manager, and he's the one who's brought in those players and is picking them every week. The suggestion it's absolutely nothing to do with him - while the players playing shit are all his fault, of course - is just bizarre.

When Hojlund was still looking for his first league goal, he could easily have just picked Martial instead. But he stuck with him because he could see his obvious ability. That's worthy of at least some praise ffs.
I imagine he must also be saying the right things to Garnacho and Mainoo to keep them focused and not overawed.

You live and die by the players you buy, the teams you pick and obviously the results you get. If Antony is down to him, then so is Hojlund.

Agree with the stuff about Ferguson though - it really is time we moved on from that particular comparison. Ferguson was a total one-off, a freak that will never be repeated. Nothing good will come of constantly comparing every manager to the different universe that was 1989.

Originally Posted by suedeshoes

The present is informed by the past.

Regardless of what's been said since, some on the United board wanted Ferguson sacked in 1989. They were overruled.

The football and structure looked as fractured and fragmented then as it did now.

There are parallels.

I know it's a different game and time but United is about history and has always looked to the past and people will always be people.

Ten Haag might be wrong, I might be wrong, you might be wrong but seeing as nobody knows, I think it's currently best to see how things go for longer. It could be a lot worse.

Agree with last bit, which is why I think we judge on the present. If he ends the season with good results and strong performances, I’m all for another season.. I’d love a bit of stability at the club for once. But of we keep playing as we have been I don’t want him to stay because of what happens with Ferguson.