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Unread 24-05-2022, 10:41 PM
Chris Quayd
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth
Given up trying to wrap my head out of it but is America’s answer to these shootings to arm more people to defend themselves? More guns?

For a country with a fair bit to admire, it’s bat shit mental about guns.
Essentially yes. Even assuming guns were banned starting today, there are so many is circulation that the effects of any ban would be minimal. In a similar vein, the whole assault/army weapon thing, obviously it's nuts that they are as freely available as they are but in most previous mass shootings, weapons that wouldn't have been banned were used. Same is true of people diagnosed as whackjobs, while the mental health provisions in the country are a joke, much better provisions wouldn't have a huge impact on the amount of mass shootings.

I linked a paper a while back on here, basically even if you fixed all egregious flaws in the checks and balances process America would still have a huge problem. Doesn't mean you shouldn't do all of the above, just means there's no obvious fix.
 
Unread 24-05-2022, 10:42 PM
windy waffles
 
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School posted on their website to tell the parents to stay at home and they would be notified once all are accounted for.

You would be there in a flash ffs.
 
Unread 24-05-2022, 10:49 PM
silv
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windy waffles
School posted on their website to tell the parents to stay at home and they would be notified once all are accounted for.

You would be there in a flash ffs.
Cant begin to imagine waiting for the news
 
Unread 24-05-2022, 11:14 PM
Arnold Muhren
 
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Ffs. Awful. And tomorrow guns and ammo sales will go through the roof cause “Murica”.

Absolutely awful. Those poor kids.
 
Unread 24-05-2022, 11:20 PM
Dueling Banjos
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Quayd
Essentially yes. Even assuming guns were banned starting today, there are so many is circulation that the effects of any ban would be minimal. In a similar vein, the whole assault/army weapon thing, obviously it's nuts that they are as freely available as they are but in most previous mass shootings, weapons that wouldn't have been banned were used. Same is true of people diagnosed as whackjobs, while the mental health provisions in the country are a joke, much better provisions wouldn't have a huge impact on the amount of mass shootings.

I linked a paper a while back on here, basically even if you fixed all egregious flaws in the checks and balances process America would still have a huge problem. Doesn't mean you shouldn't do all of the above, just means there's no obvious fix.
There certainly isn't any obvious or quick fix when the ammosexuals first reaction isn't abject horror but rather "They're not taking my guns!"
 
Unread 24-05-2022, 11:24 PM
Hyman_Roth
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Quayd
Essentially yes. Even assuming guns were banned starting today, there are so many is circulation that the effects of any ban would be minimal. In a similar vein, the whole assault/army weapon thing, obviously it's nuts that they are as freely available as they are but in most previous mass shootings, weapons that wouldn't have been banned were used. Same is true of people diagnosed as whackjobs, while the mental health provisions in the country are a joke, much better provisions wouldn't have a huge impact on the amount of mass shootings.

I linked a paper a while back on here, basically even if you fixed all egregious flaws in the checks and balances process America would still have a huge problem. Doesn't mean you shouldn't do all of the above, just means there's no obvious fix.
No obvious fix and no quick one either. Think there needs to be a cultural shift - owning a gun being seen as unnecessary? education against gun ownership? A compensation scheme for handed in guns?

Surely more immediately, states could set higher standards for gun ownership?

It would be a slow journey but it has to be worth it. It seems madness to do nothing.
 
Unread 24-05-2022, 11:28 PM
Dueling Banjos
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth
No obvious fix and no quick one either. Think there needs to be a cultural shift - owning a gun being seen as unnecessary? education against gun ownership? A compensation scheme for handed in guns?

Surely more immediately, states could set higher standards for gun ownership?

It would be a slow journey but it has to be worth it. It seems madness to do nothing.
This will be the ultimate reaction.

 
Unread 24-05-2022, 11:34 PM
Chris Quayd
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth
No obvious fix and no quick one either. Think there needs to be a cultural shift - owning a gun being seen as unnecessary? education against gun ownership? A compensation scheme for handed in guns?

Surely more immediately, states could set higher standards for gun ownership?

It would be a slow journey but it has to be worth it. It seems madness to do nothing.
It's just never, ever going to happen. Guns, and to a lesser but still significant degree violence are an intractable part of American history and way of life, the only feasible way is living with them. There are plenty of common sense measures that would improve the situation, not that there is much common sense knocking about, but even implementing them all you would end up hitting a brick wall about what to do next. People have made their peace and are willing to accept mass shootings as a heavy price for the perceived security and freedom guns provide.
 
Unread 24-05-2022, 11:41 PM
goonlooca
 
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'The second amendment protects the right to keep and bear arms'

Lunatics
 
Unread 24-05-2022, 11:42 PM
Sparky***
 
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Past caring about them tbh.

They don’t seem to want to do anything about them so let them get on with it. Utterly demented country.
 
Unread 24-05-2022, 11:52 PM
goonlooca
 
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'A Texan ten year old girl is fighting for your her life in a local hospital'

TEN YEAR OLD GIRL !!!!!

For ****s sake
 
Unread 24-05-2022, 11:53 PM
jem
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth
Think there needs to be a cultural shift - owning a gun being seen as unnecessary?
unlikely, when the general response to people having guns is "I'd better get one, too, then."
 
Unread 25-05-2022, 12:02 AM
Dueling Banjos
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Quayd
It's just never, ever going to happen. Guns, and to a lesser but still significant degree violence are an intractable part of American history and way of life, the only feasible way is living with them. There are plenty of common sense measures that would improve the situation, not that there is much common sense knocking about, but even implementing them all you would end up hitting a brick wall about what to do next. People have made their peace and are willing to accept mass shootings as a heavy price for the perceived security and freedom guns provide.
That's one of the things that really is ridiculous. I've had many discussions with 2A worshippers along those lines and asked do they carry 24/7? Obviously they don't and even if they're carrying at that moment a couple of times I've pulled a finger pistol from behind my back and told them their argument just fell apart. Yes I carry a gun in my truck as I work on the road and 4/5 nights a week I'm staying in motels but could I actually use it if the situation arose? I have no idea. I'm under no illusion I could be the fabled "good guy with a gun" if I was in the wrong place at the right time. Without specialised training I'd more than likely cower and piss my pants like most people would. I certainly don't carry when I'm out and about and have no wish to.

I mentioned on the other thread a few days ago that my wife is a teacher and she teaches 3rd grade and she's gone through active shooter drills at school just so they'd know what rapid, repeated gunfire would sound like echoing down the halls. Once a student asked her what they should do if a "bad man" came into the room. All she could say (and this is what they advise) is to just throw something, anything at them. I have no doubt whatsoever she'd put herself in harms way to protect her kids but every time there's one of these shootings it terrifies me it'll happen at her school one day.
 
Unread 25-05-2022, 12:13 AM
Chris Quayd
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dueling Banjos
That's one of the things that really is ridiculous. I've had many discussions with 2A worshippers along those lines and asked do they carry 24/7? Obviously they don't and even if they're carrying at that moment a couple of times I've pulled a finger pistol from behind my back and told them their argument just fell apart. Yes I carry a gun in my truck as I work on the road and 4/5 nights a week I'm staying in motels but could I actually use it if the situation arose? I have no idea. I'm under no illusion I could be the fabled "good guy with a gun" if I was in the wrong place at the right time. Without specialised training I'd more than likely cower and piss my pants like most people would. I certainly don't carry when I'm out and about and have no wish to.

I mentioned on the other thread a few days ago that my wife is a teacher and she teaches 3rd grade and she's gone through active shooter drills at school just so they'd know what rapid, repeated gunfire would sound like echoing down the halls. Once a student asked her what they should do if a "bad man" came into the room. All she could say (and this is what they advise) is to just throw something, anything at them. I have no doubt whatsoever she'd put herself in harms way to protect her kids but every time there's one of these shootings it terrifies me it'll happen at her school one day.
Yup, all of that. When I moved here in 2014 I would get emails from the office about 'Active Shooter Drills' and didn't really know how to process them much less what to think. I never went but even if I had gone a hundred times I know that if it ever happened I would either leg it or completely shit myself so what's the point?

The mrs and I have debated getting a gun but every time the subject comes up we quickly come to the conclusion that we are infinitely more likely to use it on each other than if someone was breaking into our house. Most people here I think fall into three camps 1) it's statistically a tiny number of people who are affected by mass shootings so I should be ok 2) ignorance is bliss or 3) the problem isn't guns, it's a lack of them. The world will stop spinning before there is a large enough culture shift here.
 
Unread 25-05-2022, 12:18 AM
silv
 
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What is it about the USA that makes you stay in such a dangerous country?

Me and the wife discuss frequently how the US looks great but would never risk living there
 
Unread 25-05-2022, 12:24 AM
Chris Quayd
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silv
What is it about the USA that makes you stay in such a dangerous country?

Me and the wife discuss frequently how the US looks great but would never risk living there
Wages + social mobility for me, just so many opportunities that wouldn't be available to me back in blighty or anywhere for that matter. There isn't a place in the world that has the quality of jobs they have here. Saying that I don't want to stay here forever, would like to head back across the Atlantic at some point in my 40's. Mass shootings wouldn't be the main reason on my list as to why, but they would certainly be on the list somewhere. You only need to be unlucky once and with kids the thought utterly terrifies me.
 
Unread 25-05-2022, 12:26 AM
goonlooca
 
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Now 18 kids & 3 adults dead
 
Unread 25-05-2022, 12:33 AM
Dueling Banjos
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silv
What is it about the USA that makes you stay in such a dangerous country?

Me and the wife discuss frequently how the US looks great but would never risk living there
In my case it's my wife and her family. We have a pretty good lifestyle and are looking to move soon and the quality of house you can get for a fraction of the cost back home is a huge factor. She sometimes mentions about moving elsewhere (I suggest Canada or Australia) but it's usually a reaction to tragedies such as this or even the likes of Roe v Wade being overturned.
 
Unread 25-05-2022, 12:35 AM
armchair
 
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Unread 25-05-2022, 12:47 AM
jem
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silv
What is it about the USA that makes you stay in such a dangerous country?

Me and the wife discuss frequently how the US looks great but would never risk living there
it doesn't feel that dangerous. you wouldn't feel safe in the uk if you just focus on the bad news. and you'd never fly.
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