PogGone - who do we replace our best player with?

Originally Posted by barca99

Because top players dont want to play for manchester united anymore? :shrugs:

Yeah, we’re nothing.

Originally Posted by Big Norm

Tielemans and Fernandez.

This.

Get a youngster like Longstaff too while we’re at it.

The generally split perception of Pogba is symptomatic of an increasing divide in the way people view the game these days. Broadly speaking, it falls between people who watch the games and make their own judgement and those who augment their view with the ever increasing number of post-match measurements available. Now, I'm not flying a flag for either side here, just venturing an observation.

Pogba did do hardly any running. As well as looking at post match stats, it was easy to see the multitude of occasions where he didn't track back or his reluctance to move faster than a gentle jog, caused us problems. In fact having two of our central three being problematically slow, usually meant that if we didn't have Herrera in the team to make up the industry on the running front, the central three didn't function too well. This general functionality of the three is something that could be observed watching the game but not so easily reflected in individual or group stats. No fault of the stats guys, the numbers are there you just have to go digging and connecting the dots to present the evidence that's much easier to see on the pitch.

In terms of his creativity and goals, the stats are also quite misleading. Again you have to look past the numbers and watch the collective. He has been the stand out superstar for us since he came back. Whether that status was warranted or not is irrelevant here. The fact is, in terms of club publicity, public perception, squad hierarchy and importance on the pitch, he's been 'the man' for United. This emphasis on him to always produce everything we ever needed, was detrimental. Everyone will have watched enough games where the rest of the team did little and kept giving him the ball in the hope he'd provide the magic. As unfair on him as that was, he did deliver as often as he could. I dare say he'd have generated breathtaking numbers if he hadn't been surrounded by so much dead wood and a main striker with trampolines for feet. Despite this, the point remains that the team focused way too much on him and everyone else's output was increasingly shite because of it. Again, impressive numbers measured against his under-performing teammates, disappointing viewing.

It's a bit like Ruud. Absolutely amazing as a forward, no need for expansion on that one. But again, during his time here, the focus became more and more on him for goals and the rest of the team's output (the one season Scholes played at 10 and got 20+ aside) was diminished. The increasing effect of this focus on him was only really illustrated when he left and the next season the rest of the team had a much larger goal tally from a broad selection of players. The football was better and the team functioned much better for this lack of myopic focus.

I loved watching Pogba on song. Wonderfully talented player, magic creativity and breathtaking range of passing. I was also equally infuriated by his laziness, absent mindedness and selfishness that hampered the team. A combination of the club/media/social hype-train, unfair pressure and weak team-mates, has created a counterproductive emphasis on him. The media and public perception of him on the whole seems immune to all this and still measure him by flashy stats, the national team and social media success. He himself appears to think he's at the top of his game. With this conveniently skewed view, I'd sell him now for as much as we can and remove the unhealthy focus on one player to paper over too many cracks.

Originally Posted by Curtis

The generally split perception of Pogba is symptomatic of an increasing divide in the way people view the game these days. Broadly speaking, it falls between people who watch the games and make their own judgement and those who augment their view with the ever increasing number of post-match measurements available. Now, I'm not flying a flag for either side here, just venturing an observation.

Pogba did do hardly any running. As well as looking at post match stats, it was easy to see the multitude of occasions where he didn't track back or his reluctance to move faster than a gentle jog, caused us problems. In fact having two of our central three being problematically slow, usually meant that if we didn't have Herrera in the team to make up the industry on the running front, the central three didn't function too well. This general functionality of the three is something that could be observed watching the game but not so easily reflected in individual or group stats. No fault of the stats guys, the numbers are there you just have to go digging and connecting the dots to present the evidence that's much easier to see on the pitch.

In terms of his creativity and goals, the stats are also quite misleading. Again you have to look past the numbers and watch the collective. He has been the stand out superstar for us since he came back. Whether that status was warranted or not is irrelevant here. The fact is, in terms of club publicity, public perception, squad hierarchy and importance on the pitch, he's been 'the man' for United. This emphasis on him to always produce everything we ever needed, was detrimental. Everyone will have watched enough games where the rest of the team did little and kept giving him the ball in the hope he'd provide the magic. As unfair on him as that was, he did deliver as often as he could. I dare say he'd have generated breathtaking numbers if he hadn't been surrounded by so much dead wood and a main striker with trampolines for feet. Despite this, the point remains that the team focused way too much on him and everyone else's output was increasingly shite because of it. Again, impressive numbers measured against his under-performing teammates, disappointing viewing.

It's a bit like Ruud. Absolutely amazing as a forward, no need for expansion on that one. But again, during his time here, the focus became more and more on him for goals and the rest of the team's output (the one season Scholes played at 10 and got 20+ aside) was diminished. The increasing effect of this focus on him was only really illustrated when he left and the next season the rest of the team had a much larger goal tally from a broad selection of players. The football was better and the team functioned much better for this lack of myopic focus.

I loved watching Pogba on song. Wonderfully talented player, magic creativity and breathtaking range of passing. I was also equally infuriated by his laziness, absent mindedness and selfishness that hampered the team. A combination of the club/media/social hype-train, unfair pressure and weak team-mates, has created a counterproductive emphasis on him. The media and public perception of him on the whole seems immune to all this and still measure him by flashy stats, the national team and social media success. He himself appears to think he's at the top of his game. With this conveniently skewed view, I'd sell him now for as much as we can and remove the unhealthy focus on one player to paper over too many cracks.

Nice one Neil.

Originally Posted by Curtis

The generally split perception of Pogba is symptomatic of an increasing divide in the way people view the game these days. Broadly speaking, it falls between people who watch the games and make their own judgement and those who augment their view with the ever increasing number of post-match measurements available. Now, I'm not flying a flag for either side here, just venturing an observation.

Pogba did do hardly any running. As well as looking at post match stats, it was easy to see the multitude of occasions where he didn't track back or his reluctance to move faster than a gentle jog, caused us problems. In fact having two of our central three being problematically slow, usually meant that if we didn't have Herrera in the team to make up the industry on the running front, the central three didn't function too well. This general functionality of the three is something that could be observed watching the game but not so easily reflected in individual or group stats. No fault of the stats guys, the numbers are there you just have to go digging and connecting the dots to present the evidence that's much easier to see on the pitch.

In terms of his creativity and goals, the stats are also quite misleading. Again you have to look past the numbers and watch the collective. He has been the stand out superstar for us since he came back. Whether that status was warranted or not is irrelevant here. The fact is, in terms of club publicity, public perception, squad hierarchy and importance on the pitch, he's been 'the man' for United. This emphasis on him to always produce everything we ever needed, was detrimental. Everyone will have watched enough games where the rest of the team did little and kept giving him the ball in the hope he'd provide the magic. As unfair on him as that was, he did deliver as often as he could. I dare say he'd have generated breathtaking numbers if he hadn't been surrounded by so much dead wood and a main striker with trampolines for feet. Despite this, the point remains that the team focused way too much on him and everyone else's output was increasingly shite because of it. Again, impressive numbers measured against his under-performing teammates, disappointing viewing.

It's a bit like Ruud. Absolutely amazing as a forward, no need for expansion on that one. But again, during his time here, the focus became more and more on him for goals and the rest of the team's output (the one season Scholes played at 10 and got 20+ aside) was diminished. The increasing effect of this focus on him was only really illustrated when he left and the next season the rest of the team had a much larger goal tally from a broad selection of players. The football was better and the team functioned much better for this lack of myopic focus.

I loved watching Pogba on song. Wonderfully talented player, magic creativity and breathtaking range of passing. I was also equally infuriated by his laziness, absent mindedness and selfishness that hampered the team. A combination of the club/media/social hype-train, unfair pressure and weak team-mates, has created a counterproductive emphasis on him. The media and public perception of him on the whole seems immune to all this and still measure him by flashy stats, the national team and social media success. He himself appears to think he's at the top of his game. With this conveniently skewed view, I'd sell him now for as much as we can and remove the unhealthy focus on one player to paper over too many cracks.

When you have many weak players, the solution is not to sell the strongest who has been a scape goat

We were evidently better without Ruud in his final season, we haven't been evidently better without Pogba.

Well if he wants out what's there to do? Him and (just as important) his agent seem hell bent on a move to Madrid, may have to make do with Juventus if they don't budge on fee/wages.

Anyway, in terms of replacements United would do well to bring in two now before Pogba goes. If he does leave that's three new midfielders in? Jesus wept. Factor in other 'possible' incomings next season could be interesting.

Just to ask, who is the 6 / holding midfielder next season? Matic again, the Scottish kid?

Originally Posted by Ranier Wolfcastle

When you have many weak players, the solution is not to sell the strongest who has been a scape goat

We were evidently better without Ruud in his final season, we haven't been evidently better without Pogba.

Beat psg away. Probably the most difficult performance theyve had to pull off.

Who is this Betis player United have been linked to? 60/70million ffs. Is this the flat rate now?

Originally Posted by Whalefish

Who is this Betis player United have been linked to? 60/70million ffs. Is this the flat rate now?

Giovani Lo Celso. Was at PSG and looked good, not seen him at Betis, but was star of the show in an impressive season for them, apparently. In the Argentina side that lost to Columbia yesterday.

I think we could get modric. 32 now.

Originally Posted by dunk

Giovani Lo Celso. Was at PSG and looked good, not seen him at Betis, but was star of the show in an impressive season for them, apparently. In the Argentina side that lost to Columbia yesterday.

Interesting. I'm not against Pogba going tbh, most reasons have been given above and for me if he doesn't want to stay it really is that simple. Door is over there. Get the maximum ££ for him and it could allow United to completely rebuild the midfield. The odd one in this Summer wasn't going to do much. United still have Matic occupying a key spot and if United are going with a three man midfield it needs to be done properly not getting someone in to cover for another's shortcomings (Matic again).

Originally Posted by Curtis

I loved watching Pogba on song. Wonderfully talented player, magic creativity and breathtaking range of passing.

I must have missed that game.

you can talk about the pressure on pogba or other players deferring to him(haven't noticed that personally), but there is no excusing the lazy @#%&! not even bothering to track runs or keep an eye on his man at corners. his basic discipline is shocking. play him on the half-way line or don't bother.

Originally Posted by Curtis

The generally split perception of Pogba is symptomatic of an increasing divide in the way people view the game these days. Broadly speaking, it falls between people who watch the games and make their own judgement and those who augment their view with the ever increasing number of post-match measurements available. Now, I'm not flying a flag for either side here, just venturing an observation.

Pogba did do hardly any running. As well as looking at post match stats, it was easy to see the multitude of occasions where he didn't track back or his reluctance to move faster than a gentle jog, caused us problems. In fact having two of our central three being problematically slow, usually meant that if we didn't have Herrera in the team to make up the industry on the running front, the central three didn't function too well. This general functionality of the three is something that could be observed watching the game but not so easily reflected in individual or group stats. No fault of the stats guys, the numbers are there you just have to go digging and connecting the dots to present the evidence that's much easier to see on the pitch.

In terms of his creativity and goals, the stats are also quite misleading. Again you have to look past the numbers and watch the collective. He has been the stand out superstar for us since he came back. Whether that status was warranted or not is irrelevant here. The fact is, in terms of club publicity, public perception, squad hierarchy and importance on the pitch, he's been 'the man' for United. This emphasis on him to always produce everything we ever needed, was detrimental. Everyone will have watched enough games where the rest of the team did little and kept giving him the ball in the hope he'd provide the magic. As unfair on him as that was, he did deliver as often as he could. I dare say he'd have generated breathtaking numbers if he hadn't been surrounded by so much dead wood and a main striker with trampolines for feet. Despite this, the point remains that the team focused way too much on him and everyone else's output was increasingly shite because of it. Again, impressive numbers measured against his under-performing teammates, disappointing viewing.

It's a bit like Ruud. Absolutely amazing as a forward, no need for expansion on that one. But again, during his time here, the focus became more and more on him for goals and the rest of the team's output (the one season Scholes played at 10 and got 20+ aside) was diminished. The increasing effect of this focus on him was only really illustrated when he left and the next season the rest of the team had a much larger goal tally from a broad selection of players. The football was better and the team functioned much better for this lack of myopic focus.

I loved watching Pogba on song. Wonderfully talented player, magic creativity and breathtaking range of passing. I was also equally infuriated by his laziness, absent mindedness and selfishness that hampered the team. A combination of the club/media/social hype-train, unfair pressure and weak team-mates, has created a counterproductive emphasis on him. The media and public perception of him on the whole seems immune to all this and still measure him by flashy stats, the national team and social media success. He himself appears to think he's at the top of his game. With this conveniently skewed view, I'd sell him now for as much as we can and remove the unhealthy focus on one player to paper over too many cracks.

When 14 year olds need to write an essay at the last minute

Originally Posted by Whip Hubley

When 14 year olds need to write an essay at the last minute

Bully

Rabiot would be an ideal signing wouldn’t he. Him Tielemans and Fernandes. That would be superb.

Originally Posted by Part 36 Offer

Rabiot would be an ideal signing wouldn’t he. Him Tielemans and Fernandes. That would be superb.

He's free. We'd be mad not to sign him. Bit of a maverick too. We need a bit of collar up.

The influence Pogba leaves behind is the issue...

That and the fact our manager seems to be over eager to keep him, if reports are true (Probably not)

Originally Posted by guerreiro

Bully

Press the button...

Pogba out would be the best thing for this team. Creating a team ethic is so important. We are almost back to the days of Ince being the guvnor except instead of players going out on the lash and putting football second- its the whole "im Mr Pogba, look at me" on social media. It has permeated the club.

We will get rid and if we do use the money to punt on a couple of midfielders then so be it.

People seem hooked on 2 extremes- sell Pogba and we are relegation fodder all of a sudden? Weve all been sold the hype im afraid. He is good. He is not world class and never will be.

Pogba leaves- our professionalism standards go up a notch. I dont think Ole is faffing around this summer.

The worry is Pogba leaving drags on the whole summer leaving us without any time for a replacement. Like Lukaku- get rid and sharpish.

Garner Gomes Greenwood Chong. A full back. A midfielder.

Pogba out. No big loss. United>any player.