Donny Van De Beek

Lingard stilll getting minutes in a competitive star-studded area of the team.

Beek can’t get in ahead of Fred.

Been is new to the country, the league.

Lingard has been with United since he was 8

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

The midfield equation. Not the forwards.

Where do you think he was playing when he got his minutes?

Originally Posted by Ethers

What?

You’re using Lingard as an example. Lingard is a forward. The conversation is about why we aren’t prepared to use him in deeper areas.

Originally Posted by jem

Schwarzschild radius aka dunks head ?

Originally Posted by Bunker Buster

Schwarzschild radius aka dunks head ?

it was more to do with black holes, but... sure.

Originally Posted by dunk

Where do you think he was playing when he got his minutes?

The minutes that people are saying haven’t been enough? Those minutes?

If people think he isn’t a right fit, then ok, but to make a judgement on his value to the team based on FOUR league starts and a smattering of sub appearances in various positions and various thrown together teams is baffling. Like what we’re seeing is the final product of someone who has been given plenty of time.

“He hasn’t done much when he has played”

Neither has Jadon Sancho, but any right minded person would say that he’s barely played and needs time and games to adjust to the league.

Apparently not for VDB. What we see is what we get.

Oh, and his performance against West Ham was better than any of Fred’s this season.

Fred could be utterly appalling and play the next game. Donny could do the same and won’t play for a month.

Question, if we all agree it seems an odd signing and it’s difficult to see where we play him, can anyone honestly say they think he has been given a fair opportunity to show what he can do?

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

Looking for a move in January, apparently. Can’t blame the guy. Not sure how bad our midfield needs to be before he gets any kind of decent run. No idea why we signed him.

Can’t play in Fred’s position though

If he had the run of games that Fred gets, I’d be amazed if he didn’t offer more.

https://twitter.com/abduiinho/status...306600963?s=21

Watching that montage the clear difference is how quick the Ajax players all were on and off the ball. We don't play in that same style so that explains partially why he has not thrived here. Dusan Tadic was their maestro though. He had one of the best individual games I've ever seen at Real Madrid though and he was just decent at Southampton so perhaps some perspective there. The Ajax system of which Van De Beek grew up in made him the player he is but out of that environment he is not so good. It's happened with players that certain clubs and styles are the perfect fit and elevate them to a level they can't replicate elsewhere.

I do 100% agree Van de Beek ought to have got way more opportunities than he has done. And we would be no worse off had he got the same game time as Fred but may be substantially better if he did replicate his Ajax form.

of course, if wanted to solve the midfield equation, we should be buying isco.

Originally Posted by Buck

Watching that montage the clear difference is how quick the Ajax players all were on and off the ball. We don't play in that same style so that explains partially why he has not thrived here. Dusan Tadic was their maestro though. He had one of the best individual games I've ever seen at Real Madrid though and he was just decent at Southampton so perhaps some perspective there. The Ajax system of which Van De Beek grew up in made him the player he is but out of that environment he is not so good. It's happened with players that certain clubs and styles are the perfect fit and elevate them to a level they can't replicate elsewhere.

I do 100% agree Van de Beek ought to have got way more opportunities than he has done. And we would be no worse off had he got the same game time as Fred but may be substantially better if he did replicate his Ajax form.

Again comes back to, why the hell did we sign him then? 🤷‍♂️

Not fancied deeper.
Not going to oust Pogba or Bruno.
Style doesn’t replicate how we play.

What a complete waste of time and money.

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

The minutes that people are saying haven’t been enough? Those minutes?

If people think he isn’t a right fit, then ok, but to make a judgement on his value to the team based on FOUR league starts and a smattering of sub appearances in various positions and various thrown together teams is baffling. Like what we’re seeing is the final product of someone who has been given plenty of time.

“He hasn’t done much when he has played”

Neither has Jadon Sancho, but any right minded person would say that he’s barely played and needs time and games to adjust to the league.

Apparently not for VDB. What we see is what we get.

Oh, and his performance against West Ham was better than any of Fred’s this season.

Fred could be utterly appalling and play the next game. Donny could do the same and won’t play for a month.

Question, if we all agree it seems an odd signing and it’s difficult to see where we play him, can anyone honestly say they think he has been given a fair opportunity to show what he can do?

set the bar higher than "better than fred", ffs.

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

Again comes back to, why the hell did we sign him then? 🤷‍♂️

Not fancied deeper.
Not going to oust Pogba or Bruno.
Style doesn’t replicate how we play.

What a complete waste of time and money.

pogba has been trying to oust himself for a long time. as a back up to bruno makes some sense.

Originally Posted by jem

set the bar higher than "better than fred", ffs.

pogba has been trying to oust himself for a long time. as a back up to bruno makes some sense.

Ofcourse we should set the bar higher, but we have what we have. And if Fred is as shit as we all seem to agree and the midfield so bad that we’re all worried, I’d have thought we’d be open to some different options.

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

The minutes that people are saying haven’t been enough? Those minutes?

If people think he isn’t a right fit, then ok, but to make a judgement on his value to the team based on FOUR league starts and a smattering of sub appearances in various positions and various thrown together teams is baffling. Like what we’re seeing is the final product of someone who has been given plenty of time.

“He hasn’t done much when he has played”

Neither has Jadon Sancho, but any right minded person would say that he’s barely played and needs time and games to adjust to the league.

Apparently not for VDB. What we see is what we get.

Oh, and his performance against West Ham was better than any of Fred’s this season.

Fred could be utterly appalling and play the next game. Donny could do the same and won’t play for a month.

Question, if we all agree it seems an odd signing and it’s difficult to see where we play him, can anyone honestly say they think he has been given a fair opportunity to show what he can do?

You keep saying "four league starts", but what about the 6 champions league starts and the starts in the Cup competitions.

The fact that you don't remember him starting any of those other games just goes to show how little of an impact he's made at any point, whether it's a sub appearance or a start.

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

Again comes back to, why the hell did we sign him then? 🤷‍♂️

Not fancied deeper.
Not going to oust Pogba or Bruno.
Style doesn’t replicate how we play.

What a complete waste of time and money.

I think he was signed on the assumption Pogba would leave so when that did not happen his pathway to play his favoured role was blocked. And I also think The Scottish Player improving by starting to show there is a bit more to his game than just being a physical presence allowed him to become one of Ole's trusted players which I doubt was expected at the start of the season.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

You keep saying "four league starts", but what about the 6 champions league starts and the starts in the Cup competitions.

The fact that you don't remember him starting any of those other games just goes to show how little of an impact he's made at any point, whether it's a sub appearance or a start.

I can’t remember many of any of Matic, Fred or The Scottish Player’s games either, unless they are especially bad. They’re not being asked to do especially memorable things. I remember Fred away to Wolves because it was one of the most inept displays of recent seasons. He started the next away game too, of course.

I keep saying four league starts because it’s a ridiculous amount of games to expect a player to display their ability over a 14 month period.

But Ok, let’s include his CL starts too. So, 10 starts in just over a year. League cup is a hard gauge because it’s often a mismatched line up. I wouldn’t really judge many players by that competition, but let’s include those too. He’s started 8 league cup games.

So that’s 18 starts spaced out over a season and two months and four competitions.

Is that a fair crack? Honestly?

Do you know how many Fred has started in that time?

54!

54 starts despite being as shit as he is.

I’d wager any amount of money that DVB wouldn’t be playing as bad as Fred did at Wolves with 50 appearances under his belt in the last year.

Matic has started 40 games in that time.
The Scottish Player 53.

And I’m sure there are plenty of bad ones in there. We’ve spent the last year complaining about the midfield and yet there’s the same guys racking up 40 and 50+ starts.

And as I mentioned earlier, he hasn’t played his way out of the side. This was happening from day one. He didn’t start the first game, scored as a sub and still didn’t start the next game. Or the game after that. In fact, he made his first league start in game NINE of the season.

Whether he’s the answer to any problem remains a fair concern, but the suggestion he’s had any kind of fair chance or that he is afforded the same kind of slack as other serial shit@#%&!s is off the mark. It’s not supported by the stats or our own eyes.

The doc is bang on here IMO. I’m not even a massive fan of beek’s, I’d just like to have seen more of him. I also think a certain type of player benefits from having a solid run of games - something he’s never been afforded. Even if it didn’t work out, it wouldn’t have hurt us to try when we’ve looked like we needed shaking up. Not many players make a massive impact from the off in the way that Bruno did, for example.

He’s obviously off anyway - just find it a bit weird that some find it odd to suggest that Ole’s management of VdB has been poor. Loads of good things Ole has done, this definitely isn’t one of them.

starts tomorrow

Originally Posted by armchair

starts tomorrow

another dream?

Originally Posted by armchair

starts tomorrow

Reckon he might. And then proceed to be shit

Someone else said that his style of play doesn’t suit united and it’s something I’ve thought for a bit. He’s used to quick 1touch passes then into space’ and none of our team play that way. We’re slow and ponderous 90% of the time and he maybe just doesn’t fit with ole’s ‘vision’.

Originally Posted by NedKelly

The doc is bang on here IMO. I’m not even a massive fan of beek’s, I’d just like to have seen more of him. I also think a certain type of player benefits from having a solid run of games - something he’s never been afforded. Even if it didn’t work out, it wouldn’t have hurt us to try when we’ve looked like we needed shaking up. Not many players make a massive impact from the off in the way that Bruno did, for example.

He’s obviously off anyway - just find it a bit weird that some find it odd to suggest that Ole’s management of VdB has been poor. Loads of good things Ole has done, this definitely isn’t one of them.

Most players benefit from a run of games. It allows them to form an understanding with players, adapt to the league and takes the pressure off knowing that they won’t instantly be dropped if they £#%&! up.


It’s a pretty simple and acknowledged notion that foreign players often need time to adapt. Especially midfielders (Christ, look at Fred’s start here) yet we seem to be comfortably dismissing it in this case,

Sancho is struggling to settle. Does anyone think that what we’re seeing now is the Sancho we signed or is it the typical performances of a player adapting to the league.

We aren’t suggesting he shouldn’t start games because he hasn’t done enough.

For me, when I watch VDB, a lot of the shortcomings stem from not being up to speed with the league or his team mates and he’ll never get that playing once a month.

A feature of Ole’s management is the faith he’s shown in certain players. De Gea, Fred, Shaw, Martial and now Lingard have all been given chances to play through bad form and show their worth…..Ole has done this to fault…. Even to the point where we criticise him for being too nice.

Well it’s certainly not the case with VDB. He’s going more mourinho on him

Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth

Reckon he might. And then proceed to be shit

Someone else said that his style of play doesn’t suit united and it’s something I’ve thought for a bit. He’s used to quick 1touch passes then into space’ and none of our team play that way. We’re slow and ponderous 90% of the time and he maybe just doesn’t fit with ole’s ‘vision’.

I think that’s the simplest explanation.

So….

…. Why did we sign him?

Just seems a bad fit, but I find it hard to blame him for that or criticise what he has done for us. It’s too small and sporadic a sample size.

So to sum up
a pointless signing..
The least adaptable Dutch player I have ever seen.
van de Saar really pulled our pants down here.