*Official* Champions League Final Match Thread - Teams & Win or Lose, We're still Champions

Originally Posted by borsuk

you reckon? can't see it myself.

every team needs moyes and rodwell, bors.

every team.

Originally Posted by borsuk

that's exactly what i mean about making excuses, picking minutes (the last half of this game after barca were already ahead, then the single game where they didn't score, then the bit of the next game until they scored), finding excuses (until the red card...).

they failed to score in one game, they scored in four games. none of that is irrelevant.

It is irrelevant, because we're talking about when Real played a certain system. The minutes I am picking are the minutes that they played that system. It started after the 5-0 defeat and ended with the red card. It lasted five hours and Barca scored once. Other systems and team selections were not especially effective. That one was.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

It is irrelevant, because we're talking about when Real played a certain system. The minutes I am picking are the minutes that they played that system. It started after the 5-0 defeat and ended with the red card. It lasted five hours and Barca scored once. Other systems and team selections were not especially effective. That one was.

ffs

Originally Posted by borsuk

ffs

After getting hammered 5-0, Mourinho put Pepe in front of the back four. He stayed there until he got sent off. That's not being selective; that's what happened.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

After getting hammered 5-0, Mourinho put Pepe in front of the back four. He stayed there until he got sent off. That's not being selective; that's what happened.

what happened was they kept barca out for one game, while losing la liga and crashing out of the champions league. still, at least they stopped barca scoring, except for the four goals they scored in the other three games.

the red cards real (and inter under maureen, unsurprisingly) keep getting against barca are not coincidental or bad luck.

Pepe should never have been sent off and they were keeping them out before that. Didn't an inter player get sent off for moving his body in the general direction of busquets face? or was that not the red?

s/siders is a decent lad but he £#%&!ing loves jose doesnt he

I've stayed out of this thread until now as I don't want to keep being reminded about Saturday, but £#%&! it.

In a weird way, for me the defeat at Wembley makes Rome a bit easier to take and understand. On reflection, I don't personally think we could have done much more in either game. Fergie got two bites at the cherry, he chose two completely different approaches, and we got our arses handed to us on both occasions.

I'd always wondered about Rome. I used to wonder, what if we went at them a bit more, what if we were more attacking, and what if we played more like United? But Saturday night just proved that there's nothing we really could have done, at Rome or Wembley. Sometimes you just aren't as good as the opposition, and its as simple as that.

This Barca team is special; there's no two ways about it. I've always tried to reserve my judgment about them ,and I was never one of the ones who got carried away about them being 'the best team ever'; but you have to give them their due. They've got eight players in their starting XI from their youth system; that is ridiculous. Three of them are arguably three of the best players to have played the game in the last decade, and will probably go down as three of the all-time greats. The three of them have destroyed us in two finals, and it shows that as a team they are simply on another level.

Fergie was right when he spoke of the gulf in youth coaching the other day. Barca haven't always been like this; during the 90s they didn't focus on youth very much at all, but they've had this generation come through now and unluckily for us its coincided with United getting to a couple of Champion's League Finals. However, you can see the difference their youth coaching has made. Its not just simply that Messi, Xavi and Iniesta are better players than any United players, but its that their natural footballing instincts are on another level due to what they've been taught since they were kids. They all play in the same way, they have the same ethos, the same vision, and it breeds this almost telepathic understanding through their play. You can't coach that in the short-term.

Guardiola therefore has a much easier job compared to someone like Fergie who has to mix and match a team of different individuals with different styles and different backgrounds, rather than simply putting out a unit that has been schooled in the same way for years and years. That's what puts Barca on another level, and that's why we haven't got close to them in either final. Tactics, formations and team selection can only go so far, but when you're up against something that has been in the making for over a decade then there's only so much you can do.

United will be back next year, and Fergie will be ready to take on Barca again. However, in regard to Rome and Wembley, sometimes you just have to hold your hands up and accept defeat to a better opponent, and this is a £#%&!ing special opponent.

Originally Posted by Part 36 Offer

s/siders is a decent lad but he £#%&!ing loves jose doesnt he

£#%&! off!

There's a difference between liking or appreciating those tactics and acknowledging that they did make things very difficult for Barca.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

It is irrelevant, because we're talking about when Real played a certain system. The minutes I am picking are the minutes that they played that system. It started after the 5-0 defeat and ended with the red card. It lasted five hours and Barca scored once. Other systems and team selections were not especially effective. That one was.

not gonna get bogged down in this too much, but it's clear that over the past 3 seasons teams taking a power approach have had success against barcelona - chelsea (who were blatantly robbed), inter (who beat them comfortably) and real this season with Pepe. maybe fergie got caught up in the whole thing and didn't want to be seen as the killjoy in this final by using stifling tactics? but he still went longball and counter-attack, so, er...

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

not gonna get bogged down in this too much, but it's clear that over the past 3 seasons teams taking a power approach have had success against barcelona - chelsea (who were blatantly robbed), inter (who beat them comfortably) and real this season with Pepe. maybe fergie got caught up in the whole thing and didn't want to be seen as the killjoy in this final by using stifling tactics? but he still went longball and counter-attack, so, er...

That just about covers it

Originally Posted by MJ Ramone

That just about covers it

hang the £#%&! on. i haven't even used my stats on goals scored by the 3 different strike combinations yet. right then...

inter were excellent at the san siro but were outplayed in the second leg and scraped through thanks to a disallowed goal, it was a long way from comfortable. chelsea were more dominant, they were very unlucky.

Originally Posted by Neo

I've stayed out of this thread until now as I don't want to keep being reminded about Saturday, but £#%&! it.

In a weird way, for me the defeat at Wembley makes Rome a bit easier to take and understand. On reflection, I don't personally think we could have done much more in either game. Fergie got two bites at the cherry, he chose two completely different approaches, and we got our arses handed to us on both occasions.

I'd always wondered about Rome. I used to wonder, what if we went at them a bit more, what if we were more attacking, and what if we played more like United? But Saturday night just proved that there's nothing we really could have done, at Rome or Wembley. Sometimes you just aren't as good as the opposition, and its as simple as that.

This Barca team is special; there's no two ways about it. I've always tried to reserve my judgment about them ,and I was never one of the ones who got carried away about them being 'the best team ever'; but you have to give them their due. They've got eight players in their starting XI from their youth system; that is ridiculous. Three of them are arguably three of the best players to have played the game in the last decade, and will probably go down as three of the all-time greats. The three of them have destroyed us in two finals, and it shows that as a team they are simply on another level.

Fergie was right when he spoke of the gulf in youth coaching the other day. Barca haven't always been like this; during the 90s they didn't focus on youth very much at all, but they've had this generation come through now and unluckily for us its coincided with United getting to a couple of Champion's League Finals. However, you can see the difference their youth coaching has made. Its not just simply that Messi, Xavi and Iniesta are better players than any United players, but its that their natural footballing instincts are on another level due to what they've been taught since they were kids. They all play in the same way, they have the same ethos, the same vision, and it breeds this almost telepathic understanding through their play. You can't coach that in the short-term.

Guardiola therefore has a much easier job compared to someone like Fergie who has to mix and match a team of different individuals with different styles and different backgrounds, rather than simply putting out a unit that has been schooled in the same way for years and years. That's what puts Barca on another level, and that's why we haven't got close to them in either final. Tactics, formations and team selection can only go so far, but when you're up against something that has been in the making for over a decade then there's only so much you can do.

United will be back next year, and Fergie will be ready to take on Barca again. However, in regard to Rome and Wembley, sometimes you just have to hold your hands up and accept defeat to a better opponent, and this is a £#%&!ing special opponent.

Great post that.

Originally Posted by borsuk

what happened was they kept barca out for one game, while losing la liga and crashing out of the champions league. still, at least they stopped barca scoring, except for the four goals they scored in the other three games.

the red cards real (and inter under maureen, unsurprisingly) keep getting against barca are not coincidental or bad luck.

So much of this is beside the point.

I don't think Real were lucky to win the cup final, as was initially suggested. It came during a period in which they had become pretty good at reducing Barca to minimal chances. That's it. I should have known it would quickly widen into a Mourinho debate that would bore the arse off us all

Casillas played a blinder in the Copa and Julio Cesar played a blinder at the Camp Nou. Not saying that's the arbiter in beating Barca when it matters, but it should be noted, because they're going to get chances whatever 'system' or style you play against them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDsGMt0M4vc&feature=player_embedded

Originally Posted by djsst

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDsGM...layer_embedded

I think that pretty much proves that Barca are on drugs.

Originally Posted by Zorg

I think that pretty much proves that Barca are on drugs.

Incredible pressing in the last minute of the vid. Utd actually put togther 10/12 excellent passes under high continual pressure, but it is just constant and unrelenting. The rest of it was showing how Utd were totally outnumbered in midfield.

They can do that kind of pressing because they don't have to do it very often or for very long, since they've usually got the ball and are conserving energy. :CaptainObvious: