I think it would be fair to call this another typical euro performance from united

I would advise watching the game again. Your post is verging on just plain daft jem's kind streak. Ronaldo's left foot is a very very fine foot indeed, by the way. He simply mis-hit a simple lob. Of course, the fact that even he can mis-hit such a chance shows that they are actually far from simple in such an environment.

don't want to sit through that again. but thanks.

Originally Posted by jem's kind streak

don't want to sit through that again. but thanks.

It's your loss - the second half was compelling viewing last night and was almost as good second time around. I'd go as far as to say that it was better even than our fine second half in Benfica, givenm the circumstances. Ferguson was absolutely spot on with his tactics. And he was spot on to say that for much of the game we played with 10 against 12. Old Trafford will be well up for it on Tuesday and I can't wait

we were shit, I say we were shit and it's my fault?

well £#%&! me for being perceptive.

I'd call you a @#%&!, but I don't want to get blamed.

Originally Posted by jem's kind streak

yes, we scored the goal of the game. that does not amount to a good performance. trop is welcome to disagree. I'm not sure why you keep going on about it, though. is it because your previous post was irrelevant %@#$&!s?

I am realistic. I don't expect to win every game. I do expect some basic standards of planning and intent, though.

throb, we may have got a goal and sticking ronaldo up front on his own might have been a good plan. but rooney and ole didn't really provide a balanced midfield and £#%&! knows what instructions he gave o'shea and heinze, but it didn't work for me. we invited pressure, both wide and down the middle (which seems like an impossible feat) and we were lucky not to concede more.

we don't really deserve to be in with a chance.

We did get attacked by Roma. They scored two lucky goals. They had a couple of other close range stabs at goal, both under pressure. They had a series of pot shots. They could have scored more, true enough. But if they hadn't scored on the stroke of half-time they might not have scored at all.

We had one or two decent positions to score more as well, were excellent in the second half, and had we had XI I'm sure we'd have won. Can't wait for Tuesday as I say.

you could point out where I said we should have thrashed them.

it doesn't really matter who says we weren't shit, you know. I say we were.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

We did get attacked by Roma. They scored two lucky goals. They had a couple of other close range stabs at goal, both under pressure. They had a series of pot shots. They could have scored more, true enough. But if they hadn't scored on the stroke of half-time they might not have scored at all.

We had one or two decent positions to score more as well, were excellent in the second half, and had we had XI I'm sure we'd have won. Can't wait for Tuesday as I say.

they put a series of crosses and pullbacks into the area. yes, we had good chances too, but we looked rattled for the whole game. certain players, anyway.

Originally Posted by jem's kind streak

they put a series of crosses and pullbacks into the area. yes, we had good chances too, but we looked rattled for the whole game. certain players, anyway.

I think one or two of our players did look rattled for the whole game or thereabouts, particularly the full-backs as you say. I think a lot of that was coming to terms with Roma's weird formation and our own nervous start; I also thought the referee was almost totally against us on the night, and played a big part in stopping us relieving the pressure for long enough to calm ourselves. And of course Roma were pumped, as were their crowd. It was a classic European night in many ways, and it will be again on Tuesday

We didn't pass the ball as well as they did, especially when they pressed us in our own half. Our movement off the ball wasn't as good as theirs, so we often lacked outlets. And we certainly didn't press the player in possession as well as they did. "Shit" is a bit strong, but we were definitely outclassed. If Roma had been more composed and perhaps a bit more positive it could easily have been over already.

They repeatedly waltzed through the centre of our midfield, even before Scholes was sent-off.

We couldn't cope with their quick restart plays.

Both fullbacks were positionally suspect and offered nothing going forward.

Ole's cross for Rooney was excellent and he worked as hard as he could, but physically he didn't look up to playing in that kind of match, especially in that role and with 10 men.

Thought Giggs was poor too, he didn't look very bright going forward and left us exposed defensively after moving into the centre.

On the plus side: our centre backs both put in decent performances; Rooney worked hard, his movement was good and he took his chance well; Ronaldo always looked a threat, particularly when taking on Panucci down the right wing, though his tracking back was appalling; and after the first 30 minutes or so Carrick looked strong defensively and, along with Ronaldo, was probably out most composed player in possession.

Overall I thought we showed guts, but not much more than that.

P.S. I don't think you can say the tactics were negative. For an away team, particularly one with ten men, we were actually quite positive.

Originally Posted by jem's kind streak

it's sweet that you remember comments I made previously regarding arsenal (and thanks for reminding me how right I was then too), but if you had been hanging on my every word for more than five minutes, there is no way you could call my reaction knee-jerk. it's been a five-year jerk, at least. and I've whinged repeatedly. :0)

anyway, knee jerk is perfectly compatible with long-term. i just don't think the comments are thought through or have any perspective; i get the impression it's the same response to any defeat. hence knee jerk. i hope your knee hasn't been intermittently jerking for five years, though. that would be worrying.

bearing in mind that there aren't any decent teams in europe at the moment, roma still aren't anything special. the way we played last night wasn't far off boro away last year and no one would call boro a great team (and expect to be taken seriously), even if their pot shots were better than totti's.

well, that's what a good example of what i mean. i think it's simply absurd to suggest that the whole of european football is has somehow collectively sunk to a lower level. there are as many good sides as there always are; they simply tend to cancel each other out as they are far more familiar with each other and matches are very tight. we're just going to have to agree to differ on the basics here. if it was against boro (copenhagen, lille/ i'd agree with you because i don't think boro are anywhere near our level and we shoud dominate them. i think roma are a different proposition, and our performance merits a different response.

it's not simply the case that if united play the opposition can't live with us, although that happens to be my opinion (give or take a midfielder who can actually tackle) since you mention it. united fell below a standard of basic organisation and competence. sure, anyone can miss a chance like ronaldo missed with his left foot, that's not the sort of thing I'm complaining about. but the negative passing across the back four just waiting for their pressing forwards to force an error, the constant backpassing to vds because there was no other option, the hoofs forward that just gave possession away... these are not just things that happen, they are failures in coaching and direction. and they are repeat failures.

but there is another team on the pitch forcing mistakes, blocking passes, closing off options. we weren't very bad; roma were very good. what would have happened if scholes had stayed on the pitch might have been very different - united are a good learning side and often improve after a difficult first 20 minutes. i thought we were showing signs of settling, but we never got the chance, of course.

roma's goals may have been lucky, but they made that luck by putting us under pressure. and they were unlucky not get more. especially the way vds was playing.

i agree with that. i just think it's more appropriate to salute (not in a di canio way, obviously) roma than to criticise united this time.

Originally Posted by Serenity Now

We didn't pass the ball as well as they did, especially when they pressed us in our own half. Our movement off the ball wasn't as good as theirs, so we often lacked outlets. And we certainly didn't press the player in possession as well as they did. "Shit" is a bit strong, but we were definitely outclassed. If Roma had been more composed and perhaps a bit more positive it could easily have been over already.

They repeatedly waltzed through the centre of our midfield, even before Scholes was sent-off.

We couldn't cope with their quick restart plays.

Both fullbacks were positionally suspect and offered nothing going forward.

Ole's cross for Rooney was excellent and he worked as hard as he could, but physically he didn't look up to playing in that kind of match, especially in that role and with 10 men.

Thought Giggs was poor too, he didn't look very bright going forward and left us exposed defensively after moving into the centre.

On the plus side: our centre backs both put in decent performances; Rooney worked hard, his movement was good and he took his chance well; Ronaldo always looked a threat, particularly when taking on Panucci down the right wing, though his tracking back was appalling; and after the first 30 minutes or so Carrick looked strong defensively and, along with Ronaldo, was probably out most composed player in possession.

Overall I thought we showed guts, but not much more than that.

P.S. I don't think you can say the tactics were negative. For an away team, particularly one with ten men, we were actually quite positive.

dat's pretty much what I'm been saying, man.

dat crazy badger, he don't think so.

but man, I'm tellin' you... ain't no excuses for passing back to mr goalkeeper from our free kick deep in tha opponent half. oh no. some would call dat negative, man. neg-a-tive. lack o' magination.

sure, we got ronaldo. he don't know negative.

Originally Posted by jem

dat crazy badger, he don't think so.

there are more of us than you think...

no,no,no,no and quite simply, no!