Refinancing the debt

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

at the end of the day you'll look back at the past 8 years and remember how pissed off you were

and I'll look back on it and remember the days I had, the great players I watched, the fantastic matches I saw and overall how brilliant it was watching United


You're as entitled as you are determined to think that makes me and the vast majority of match-going Reds stupid. But you'll still be bitter, and I won't.


You can't answer the point about the forecasts and the revisionism on the commercial revenues either, which is why you have "anyone could've done that" on repeat. Although I see you've adjusted it to read that they could've achieved that just by sitting on the board now.

yes, I've literally got smoke coming out of my ears.

as well as enjoying the great moments, I'll think of the slightly lame football, of how we could have been competitive with just a solid midfielder and of the fact that we were living under a cloud even when results were good. I'll be glad we had a good squad and that fergie and giggs and scholes kept cranking. I'll always be a bit disappointed about hargo's legs.

I have always, from before the takeover went through, said that anything the glazers did could have been done without the debt (obviously, I'm not talking about the takeover itself). as it happens, they were not essential for revenues to grow either, but when it comes to revisionism, you'd best remember there is a search function, dear heart.

the point about projections is that no one knows what will happen. there was always upside (not least because there are enough sheep going through the turnstiles) and this was never disputed. what was always true was that the takeover was a risk, it was a risk not worth taking and the club gained nothing in exchange for the debt. the glazers are not good owners, they are freeriders.

if you think I am consumed by bitterness, it's because you are stupid. if you think I'm insulting match going reds when I insult you, it's because you're stupid. you don't simply have a different opinion, you have a lack of understanding and a devious tendency to misquote, battle straw men and lie. I'm not bitter about that either. it's what the internet was made for.

Originally Posted by bigMikeA

That's great and I admire the strength of your convictions but all that's doing now is denying you any joy you might get from going to watch the team play? It's certainly making no difference whatsoever to if we are or aren't owned by the glazers. That ship sailed about 6 years ago.

I now have zero interest in going OT whether or not the Glazers own United. That ship sailed a long time ago too. The matchday 'experience' even pre-Glazers was a crying shame to what it had been so it isn't hard for me to stay away.

Originally Posted by jem

yes, I've literally got smoke coming out of my ears.

as well as enjoying the great moments, I'll think of the slightly lame football, of how we could have been competitive with just a solid midfielder and of the fact that we were living under a cloud even when results were good. I'll be glad we had a good squad and that fergie and giggs and scholes kept cranking. I'll always be a bit disappointed about hargo's legs.

I have always, from before the takeover went through, said that anything the glazers did could have been done without the debt (obviously, I'm not talking about the takeover itself). as it happens, they were not essential for revenues to grow either, but when it comes to revisionism, you'd best remember there is a search function, dear heart.

the point about projections is that no one knows what will happen. there was always upside (not least because there are enough sheep going through the turnstiles) and this was never disputed. what was always true was that the takeover was a risk, it was a risk not worth taking and the club gained nothing in exchange for the debt. the glazers are not good owners, they are freeriders.

if you think I am consumed by bitterness, it's because you are stupid. if you think I'm insulting match going reds when I insult you, it's because you're stupid. you don't simply have a different opinion, you have a lack of understanding and a devious tendency to misquote, battle straw men and lie. I'm not bitter about that either. it's what the internet was made for.

what an absolute crock of bitter, self-absorbed drivel

if you think I'm stupid it's because you're stupid. if you think you're fooling anyone it's because you're stupid. if you think you're right it's because you're stupid. if you think calling match-going reds "sheep" isn't calling them stupid it's because you're an arrogant, deluded #@&%!.

Originally Posted by jem

yes, I've literally got smoke coming out of my ears.

as well as enjoying the great moments, I'll think of the slightly lame football, of how we could have been competitive with just a solid midfielder and of the fact that we were living under a cloud even when results were good. I'll be glad we had a good squad and that fergie and giggs and scholes kept cranking. I'll always be a bit disappointed about hargo's legs.

I have always, from before the takeover went through, said that anything the glazers did could have been done without the debt (obviously, I'm not talking about the takeover itself). as it happens, they were not essential for revenues to grow either, but when it comes to revisionism, you'd best remember there is a search function, dear heart.

the point about projections is that no one knows what will happen. there was always upside (not least because there are enough sheep going through the turnstiles) and this was never disputed. what was always true was that the takeover was a risk, it was a risk not worth taking and the club gained nothing in exchange for the debt. the glazers are not good owners, they are freeriders.

if you think I am consumed by bitterness, it's because you are stupid. if you think I'm insulting match going reds when I insult you, it's because you're stupid. you don't simply have a different opinion, you have a lack of understanding and a devious tendency to misquote, battle straw men and lie. I'm not bitter about that either. it's what the internet was made for.

sheep...£#%&! off

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

what an absolute crock of bitter, self-absorbed drivel

if you think I'm stupid it's because you're stupid. if you think you're fooling anyone it's because you're stupid. if you think you're right it's because you're stupid. if you think calling match-going reds "sheep" isn't calling them stupid it's because you're an arrogant, deluded #@&%!.

.......and I'm done with this guy.

:0)

Originally Posted by jem

.......and I'm done with this guy.

:0)

are you still going? £#%&!ing hell

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

are you still going? £#%&!ing hell

I haven't died in the last three hours, if that's what you mean. you seem a bit surprised considering my good health.

Originally Posted by VodkaAndCoke

I'm just glad I haven't given the @#%&!s even one penny.

this

People still talking about the debt as if it's their own

Originally Posted by jem

yes, I've literally got smoke coming out of my ears.

as well as enjoying the great moments, I'll think of the slightly lame football, of how we could have been competitive with just a solid midfielder and of the fact that we were living under a cloud even when results were good. I'll be glad we had a good squad and that fergie and giggs and scholes kept cranking. I'll always be a bit disappointed about hargo's legs.

I have always, from before the takeover went through, said that anything the glazers did could have been done without the debt (obviously, I'm not talking about the takeover itself). as it happens, they were not essential for revenues to grow either, but when it comes to revisionism, you'd best remember there is a search function, dear heart.

the point about projections is that no one knows what will happen. there was always upside (not least because there are enough sheep going through the turnstiles) and this was never disputed. what was always true was that the takeover was a risk, it was a risk not worth taking and the club gained nothing in exchange for the debt. the glazers are not good owners, they are freeriders.

if you think I am consumed by bitterness, it's because you are stupid. if you think I'm insulting match going reds when I insult you, it's because you're stupid. you don't simply have a different opinion, you have a lack of understanding and a devious tendency to misquote, battle straw men and lie. I'm not bitter about that either. it's what the internet was made for.

Boom boom boom

Originally Posted by Child of Darkness

Boom boom boom

the revisionist bit about the projections was the funniest. apparently all the shouty hysteria about the imminent rapid downward spiral of asset-stripping and all the rest of it, leading to a financial armageddon by 2017, was just part of acknowledging that "there was a [potential] upside and this was never disputed"

well it certainly was never disputed by me, that much is true. obviously the downside is that United is controlled by the finance industry.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

the revisionist bit about the projections was the funniest. apparently all the shouty hysteria about the imminent rapid downward spiral of asset-stripping and all the rest of it, leading to a financial armageddon by 2017, was just part of acknowledging that "there was a [potential] upside and this was never disputed"

well it certainly was never disputed by me, that much is true. obviously the downside is that United is controlled by the finance industry.

*sigh*

there is no revisionism on my part.

if the glazers' own projections (that we didn't see) were so convincing, they wouldn't have needed to refinance at sensible rates more recently because they wouldn't have had pik notes at silly rates to start with. they needed us to finish top four to make it work, but haven't done much to ensure it. they haven't spent.

when you talk about asset stripping, people warned we might have to sell ronaldo and rooney to pay debt service, not that they would break up the company. in case you hadn't noticed, we sold ronaldo. rooney may not last much longer. whilst ronnie wasn't (necessarily) sold to pay interest, it didn't hurt.

what the glazers have always done and are doing suits them. they aren't strangling the club, but they certainly are bleeding it. "not interfering", you call it.

the football in the last three years has been pretty desperate. it was always more likely to be death by a thousand cuts. chelsea and city should have done better last season. it's not money that kept us ahead of the pack, but instinct, determination and attitude..... but mostly city and chelsea being surprisingly poor.

united is not run by the finance industry, you dope.

murdoch > glazer

if I toss a coin and say "heads, I shoot you", then it's tails... no one would say it was hysteria if you soiled yourself. they'd probably curse their luck, though.

tbh I can't even be arsed to read all that ...

I got as far as "they needed us to finish top 4" ...

I remember 1991 as the last time that didn't happen. Any argument projecting doom based on What happens if United don't qualify for the CL is worthy of only ridicule. It might happen of course. It's about as likely as you being clever enough to know how dumb your argument is. But it might ...

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

tbh I can't even be arsed to read all that ...

I got as far as "they needed us to finish top 4" ...

I remember 1991 as the last time that didn't happen. Any argument projecting doom based on What happens if United don't qualify for the CL is worthy of only ridicule. It might happen of course. It's about as likely as you being clever enough to know how dumb your argument is. But it might ...

you're in zombie mode now. ripip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTgowotRNnk

you are miracle mike and I claim my £5.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

the revisionist bit about the projections was the funniest. apparently all the shouty hysteria about the imminent rapid downward spiral of asset-stripping and all the rest of it, leading to a financial armageddon by 2017, was just part of acknowledging that "there was a [potential] upside and this was never disputed"

well it certainly was never disputed by me, that much is true. obviously the downside is that United is controlled by the finance industry.

Utter bullshit. United were far more controlled by the finance industry per Glazers. The main priority of a plc is to its shareholders, therefore the finance industry at large. Now, though, United are a means for the Glazers to get rich, something entirely different

Originally Posted by 92ToBury

Utter bullshit. United were far more controlled by the finance industry per Glazers. The main priority of a plc is to its shareholders, therefore the finance industry at large. Now, though, United are a means for the Glazers to get rich, something entirely different

I remember when Edwards got paid he used to stand outside the stretford end turnstyles, just handing out his money. God bless him.

Originally Posted by 92ToBury

Utter bullshit. United were far more controlled by the finance industry per Glazers. The main priority of a plc is to its shareholders, therefore the finance industry at large. Now, though, United are a means for the Glazers to get rich, something entirely different

yeah okay

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

yeah okay

Usual throb. Can't answer so tries to ridicule. Typical troll

Originally Posted by 92ToBury

Usual throb. Can't answer so tries to ridicule. Typical troll

I'm not ridiculing you, I was laughing at what you posted.

You could've just taken it that I don't agree and just left it at that. Hell, you could even have used the rest of the thread stretching back the last 2 or 3 days to help you come to that verdict. But oh no, you chose to post some shit about trolls or whatever instead ... it's tedious as £#%&! tbh.