how's berbatov doing today?

If a striker doesn't arrive in January it won't be for a lack of trying IMO.

Megson's already basically said Anelka's off, and they're looking for a replacement.

If we could get Anelka in for anything upto 12m i'd be ecstatic.

I think he's mentally ready again and he'd fit in fantastically with how we play.
If you think back to how he was at Arsenal to have thought then that you'd been able to sign him coming into his peak years (what is he 27?) for that figure - wouldve seemed incredible.
Obviously theres plenty shit gone on since then but I think it would be one of those signings that would be timed perfectly for both us and the player.

I had a feeling we'd be trying to get him as well, but Fergie going public on trying to sign him has made me think maybe we aren't. Can't see why he would put that out there if he was still making attempts.

tevez - average joe, workhorse
rossi - better than tevez, world beater

maybe someone should let the argentinians and the italians know because the wrong one seems to be getting rather more international time.



from time to time this place still astounds. still, not to worry. tevez will be a fantastic player again in a couple of days and we'll be better than the 94 and 99 teams combined. again.

Borsuk, I'm epxecting Lisbon to get at least a point and Fulham the same. MOTD2 have just told Sanchez how to improve his sides quite abysmal defending. Watching the match today I couldn't help but think Evra, Nani, Giggs and/or Ronaldo would have a field day down the flanks next Monday.

Bastards.

Originally Posted by Whalefish

Throb, we do need another striker. I've just about had enough of Saha and I suspect there's a few at the club who have too.

Yeah, I’m starting to think we’ve got to get some more cover. It doesn’t have to be a big money signing like Berbatov or Eto'o; it’s a numbers thing more than anything. Having just three strikers is pushing it a little anyway, regardless of how much some of our other players allow us to switch systems. But for one of the three to be a player who spends half the season injured and who the manager appears to have decided is not capable of playing two games in a row when he is fit, is a huge gamble.

We relied on Saha to be fit for the run-in last season and paid for it. I’d hate to have to depend on him again. If Anelka’s head is in the right place and we can agree a reasonable price with Bolton I think he’d be perfect.

I can't believe that anyone who watched Tevez at Boca could honestly claim that he has not been a match winner. Tevez did not just win matches for Boca, he won championships.

He was far and away the dominant figure in the 2003 Copa Libertadores, where he outshone the likes of Robinho (Madrid), Diego (Bremen), Elano (Citeh) and Alex (Chelsea). This culminated in Tevez's Boca destroying their Santos 5-1 over two legs in the final.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgH8aYETPLM

He was just as good, if not better, in the Apertura championship of the same year. Here he was again the key figure in the tournament, consistently putting in performances of a level that a number of experienced observers said had not been seen in Argentine football since the days of Diego Maradona.

Perhaps the most famous of these observers was Ramon Maddoni. Maddoni is the chief coach of youth side Club Parque - where the likes of Redondo, Riquelme, Cambiasso, Gago, Sorin and Tevez were all developed as young lads - and is probably the most renowned talent scout in Argentina. Maddoni has said that Tevez was the greatest explosion in Argentine football since El Diego.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvCSvHO_OXk

Francisco Cornejo, the man who discovered players like Maradona and Fernando Redondo, expressed similar sentiments.

Maybe this is a bit over the top. But I have been watching Argentine football for a long time, and I can't think of many players who have looked as exciting as Carlitos Tevez did. There have been some fantastic performances, for sure, but the combination of skill and aggression that Tevez demonstrated was - as far as I'm concerned, at least - very special.

In any case, neither the Libertadores nor the Apertura would have gone to the club from the Ribera without Tevez, of that there is no doubt.

In 2004, for a number of reasons, his performance level dropped a bit for Boca. But, after stepping in for the injured Javier Saviola, he still managed to be one of the most impressive performers for Argentina at the Copa America that year. As a side note, if he hadn't been taken off in the final that year, after getting hacked down whilst holding onto the ball in the corner with around three minutes remaining, I've always felt that Argentine probably would have gone on to hold on for the win.

He followed up his strong Copa America showing with an even better one at the Athens Olympics, where he won the golden boot, scoring 50% of Argentina's goals in the process.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1Aw_SnMGu0

Bayern Munich and Atletico Madrid had scouts watching Tevez for a long time over these years. They both ended up making big offers for him, with the Atletico directors spending a couple of months negotiating with Boca to no avail.

And the PSV scouts were so impressed by Tevez that Guus Hiddink himself flew over to Buenos Aires to watch him play. PSV made an offer valuing the player at 26 million Euros shortly after this, with Hiddink making a number of glowing remarks about Tevez in the Argentine media.

While he was in Argentina, the only real knock on Tevez was his temperament. On the pitch that he could be wound up easily. Once defenders cottoned on to this, it resulted in a quite a few stupid cards for him. Off the pitch he gradually started getting into a bit of trouble too, fighting with photographers and generally leading a somewhat chaotic lifestyle.

At the end of 2004, in a surprising move, Tevez was purchased for Corinthians by Kia Joorabchian's MSI. As an Argentine, he wasn't given a particularly warm welcome into Brazilian football - the referees didn't give him any protection and his team-mates had problems with his comparatively huge wages. Even Lula, the president of Brazil and a Corinthians fan, expressed a negative view of Tevez, saying that he was "just another player".

These issues began to fade away as Carlitos hit form and Lula soon changed his mind. He now declared the young Argentine to be a "phenomenon", as Tevez went on to drive the the Timão to their first Serie A title in 5 years, putting in match winning performances on a weekly basis and finishing the season as unquestionably the best player in Brazilian football.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCKFzQFc0wE

During his time in Brazil, the only way most of the teams he faced, including continental giants like River Plate, managed to stop Tevez was to foul him. This didn't stop him from being arguably the most impressive figure in the 2006 Copa Libertadores.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJkvM9Kp9t0

Chelsea followed him very closely during this period. This resulted in Jose Mourinho making the trip over to São Paulo to see Tevez in person during the second leg of the Corinthians-River Plate tie in the 2006 Libertadores. Mourinho had dinner with Kia Joorabchian after this, where he reportedly expressed a firm interest in Tevez, but was unable to complete a deal because of the £30m+ valuation involved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc5HUHBEPK4

Arsene Wenger has made it very clear that he likes him too. Indeed he recently stated his desire to sign the player: "When I first saw Manchester United on the case, I thought no. If [Manchester United] had not been on the case, yes." And Fergie, of course, did end up signing him.

Oh and then there's the small matter of some good displays in the last World Cup. Including a MOTM performance against Holland.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K02532IOU30

And single handedly saving West Ham from relegation.

All very, very average.

Full stop!

Very good read Serenity as per. Is he as good now as he was in 03?

A little part of me thinks we'll see the best of Tevez when he finally cuts loose MSI and settles down.

Same goes for Mascherano tbh, just hope it's not at Liverpool.

Originally Posted by Fatboy Shrek

Is he as good now as he was in 03?

For me, no.

He's certainly improved in some aspects of his game. For example, he's a lot better at knowing when to release the ball now than he was back then, when he would often try to do it all himself. This is something that has gradually improved over the years. But overall, I don't think he's hit anything like the form he showed in 2003, or at Corinthians for that matter.

Hopefully he will be able to reach or even surpass that level again at United. With the added awareness and experience he has now I think he has the capability to be even better if he does.

I wouldnt call him fat but he is nowhere as lean and quick as he was back then, I blame the East End chippies last year when he was frozen out at West Ham

Once he gets into his best condition physically, all he will need a great goal then hopefully we can see the real apache. Mind you, he has not disappointed so far, but we all know this isnt his best.

Bit brief, can you elaborate a bit more please Serenity Now?

Originally Posted by Serenity Now

For me, no.

He's certainly improved in some aspects of his game. For example, he's a lot better at knowing when to release the ball now than he was back then, when he would often try to do it all himself. This is something that has gradually improved over the years. But overall, I don't think he's hit anything like the form he showed in 2003, or at Corinthians for that matter.

Hopefully he will be able to reach or even surpass that level again at United. With the added awareness and experience he has now I think he has the capability to be even better if he does.

Would you not put that down to the uncertainty and upheaval he has been through with his clubs in the last 2-3 years though? A long stint at a family club is what he needs. Give him that 5 year deal, £#%&! Kia off and watch him go.

tevez is class. i can't believe some people can't see it - it stands out a mile. but the best thing, for me, is the understanding he has with rooney. they seem able to bring the best out of one another and to produce a fantastic blend of skill, power and vision.

considering how short a time they've had playing together and the fact that neither of them can speak english i think the partnership we've seen so far has been stunning. it's also far from a simple partnership ( e.g. big guy/little guy or creative guy/pacy guy pairs): both of them are such rounded footballers that they can switch roles without any problem. both can drop off, both can play up top, both can go wide, both can go through the middle.

can't wait for rooney to get fit again, tbh.

Originally Posted by borsuk

tevez is class. i can't believe some people can't see it - it stands out a mile. but the best thing, for me, is the understanding he has with rooney. they seem able to bring the best out of one another and to produce a fantastic blend of skill, power and vision.

considering how short a time they've had playing together and the fact that neither of them can speak english i think the partnership we've seen so far has been stunning. it's also far from a simple partnership ( e.g. big guy/little guy or creative guy/pacy guy pairs): both of them are such rounded footballers that they can switch roles without any problem. both can drop off, both can play up top, both can go wide, both can go through the middle.

can't wait for rooney to get fit again, tbh.

I agree with you, I just don't think he has fully relaxed yet, he just needs something, an important goal or something to just kick him on and relax him. Don't get me wrong, he's been brilliant so far, but there is so much more to come. It took him till January to settle at Westam and he has moved quite a lot in recent years, just let him get settled.

Originally Posted by Serenity Now

Chelsea followed him very closely during this period. This resulted in Jose Mourinho making the trip over to São Paulo to see Tevez in person during the second leg of the Corinthians-River Plate tie in the 2006 Libertadores. Mourinho had dinner with Kia Joorabchian after this, where he reportedly expressed a firm interest in Tevez, but was unable to complete a deal because of the £30m+ valuation involved.

I remember that tie very well, particularly the first leg. Massive game. Brazil vs Argentina; two of the tournament's biggest clubs; Tevez (and Mascherano) going back to play in Buenos Aires and Carlitos back to the home of the old enemy. His response was to score a cracker. Cut inside on his right foot and absolutely leathered it inside the near post from outside the area.

He's class.


I had my doubts but he has somehow brought Rooney's game to a new level.


Rooney has been a revelation further up the field - and I think a lot has been learnt from King Henrik.


%@#$&!s to all this 'big man, quick man' shit. Ask any top defender what they hate playing against most and it'll be intelligence, quick thinking and movement.


Ferguson has once again proved he is the master.


It's unbelievable (but not suprising on this board) that people still don't have complete belief in him - the man is a visionary.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I remember that tie very well, particularly the first leg. Massive game. Brazil vs Argentina; two of the tournament's biggest clubs; Tevez (and Mascherano) going back to play in Buenos Aires and Carlitos back to the home of the old enemy. His response was to score a cracker. Cut inside on his right foot and absolutely leathered it inside the near post from outside the area.

Was an excellent match that. Remember Corinthians being a bit disjointed, as was often the case, but Carlitos was superb. The gallinas actually managed to put in a creditable performance in the Libertadores as well (with a bit of help from the ref, as usual)!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUfaHCGhKqk

I am genuinely stumbling across these threads by accident. I searched for "lapping" and came across this. Viva Berba!

Originally Posted by borsuk

i doubt berbatov would be able to cope with just being another footballer. everywhere he's played he's been the big star in the dressing room. if he tried that at ot he'd last about thirty seconds.

strikes me as a big fish only in a small pool player. certainly not going to be happy on the bench and i think rooney tevez is unquestionably the future for united.

Originally Posted by Fatboy Shrek

My post earlier.

I'm on the fence. He's linked well with Rooney, very well infact, but his finishing at times is absolutely woeful. Header against City, Yesterday's sitter, plenty against Villa to name a few. I'm actually worried about it. You can't have a forward who's meant to be on the end of chances missing so many simple ones and often just hitting it straight at the keeper. Sure he works hard, but so does Kevin Davies, it's nice to see it occasionally but sometimes you want to see him troubling defences with the ball at his feet, rather than chasing it, it's not as if our midfield themselves shouldn't be able to contain garbage like Bolton.

I'm not altogether convinced he'll progress much either, his weight hasn't nudged at all since he got here and he has unquestionnably gone backwards from a few years ago (though he has been played with like a toy and been injured for a bit). I want him to succeed, i think he's a United type player, but i'm not convinced he will be a super player for us.

Prove me wrong Carlitos.

hat doffed, fatboy. bang on the money, that.