More Van Gaal philosophy discussion

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

I was under the impression it was just a Dutch expression, like trainer-coach. System doesn't describe it, as that sounds like it's just his preferred play style, when it's really his ideas relating to the whole of management - preparation, player behaviour, motivation, the way to treat players etc. In English it would be something like guiding principles on how to manage.

I'm surprised his book hasn't been translated by now. Unless I missed it.

in english it would be spoken about in passing as getting ideas across to the players, and would largely go without saying

every now and then the best managers, or the most well known, would get an hour long film looking at their managerial style. ferguson had about 10 of them done on him.

Originally Posted by Semantic Lisp

we've got one 1st pick striker

How many 1st pick strikers should there be in a team with 1 first team striking position?

Originally Posted by Jack Duckworth

obviously.

apology accepted

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

How many 1st pick strikers should there be in a team with 1 first team striking position?

at least 2

not least because it won't always be just 1 striker

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

How many 1st pick strikers should there be in a team with 1 first team striking position?

three. one is a false 9, obvs.

Originally Posted by Baron

He has, undeniably, become more cautious as he's got older. Yet with the resources at hand, he's not been able to push for a more exciting side, regardless of the quality of player he can purchase.

He's been here 12 months, not 12 years. To get to a good attacking team from the starting point he had, you have to go through stages. Like fergie says, you get the defending right and build from there.

Using his dutch team as an example isnt really representative. He made the best he could from a limited player pool once strootman got injured. Again, to cover their weakness and play to their strengths.

With united, the Leicester game £#%&!ed him up a little and he became more cautious as a result to protect against the team's weaknesses. But it seems to me he's solving those weaknesses and working towards a fast attacking team every day, both with his signings and on the training pitch. It's just a matter of time, and given we were far more solid on Saturday than I expected given 5 debuts, I'd suggest it isn't far away.

Originally Posted by jem

interesting to read, but not so much to watch.

if you think football is about a winger with tricks being good enough to take on his fullback, look up and actually pick out a man running into the box, safe in the knowledge that he has competent defenders behind him should he lose the ball far up the pitch, you might find it all a bit mechanical (with van gaal as hephaestus) and frustrating.

of course, as soon as giggsy mentions this, van gaal will no doubt point out that his system doesn't involve hitting on the nearest piece of ass or £#%&!ing with your eyes on your reflection.

Originally Posted by irk

hephaestus > archytus

(I'm ignoring the giggsy bit)

Originally Posted by Baron

I want nothing more than an Ajax '95-esque United, I'm no naive enough to think it's actually possible, but it's not disingenuous to expect more from him than he's doing.

Did he build that inside 12 months?

Originally Posted by Semantic Lisp

apology accepted

at least 2

But the player not picked, by definition, wouldn't be a 1st pick player otherwise he'd be picked.

Other than last season I've not seen van gaal play with 2 actual strikers. 1 striker and a forward in the style of Yorke or cantona maybe. In which case he has numerous forwards who can play that role.

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

Did he build that inside 12 months?

i think you'll find that in every single instance in the past where a manager has presided over unprecedented success for a quarter of a century, then suddenly leaves, leaving behind a squad of aging veterans who need replacing, players on the wane and others who have spend years being carried by the aforementioned veterans, then the timescale for sorting it all out is er, erm, er...

Oh that's right there is no previous instance because it's a totally unique situation.

He should put Giggs in charge of making subs. Some of his decisions are £#%&!ing bizarre. Putting Valencia on at weekend just being one case in point.

Originally Posted by Coracao

He should put Giggs in charge of making subs. Some of his decisions are £#%&!ing bizarre. Putting Valencia on at weekend just being one case in point.

Kluivert off the bench to win the European Cup another etc.

Let's not forget Tim Krul circa last summer

Originally Posted by Coracao

He should put Giggs in charge of making subs. Some of his decisions are £#%&!ing bizarre. Putting Valencia on at weekend just being one case in point.

I assumed they were because the players he subbed were making their debuts and hadn't played 90 mins in pre season so would be tired? It was boiling hot as well.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

I assumed they were because the players he subbed were making their debuts and hadn't played 90 mins in pre season so would be tired? It was boiling hot as well.

Surprised more haven't mentioned this - even the people in the commentary box were sweating like pigs FFS

Originally Posted by Sparky***

I assumed they were because the players he subbed were making their debuts and hadn't played 90 mins in pre season so would be tired? It was boiling hot as well.

Changing your right back with 10 minutes to go when you're under pressure for a player who is continually found out positionally, is a stupid decision whichever way you look at it. Especially as this change has cost us In the past and could've easily on sat.

Originally Posted by Coracao

Changing your right back with 10 minutes to go when you're under pressure for a player who is continually found out positionally, is a stupid decision whichever way you look at it. Especially as this change has cost us In the past and could've easily on sat.

Darmian had cramp I thought no?

Wasn't the sub I had an issue with, it was the player coming on to replace him. That was the issue

Originally Posted by Clarkie

Darmian had cramp I thought no?

Wasn't the sub I had an issue with, it was the player coming on to replace him. That was the issue

Mata went down with cramp didn't he ?

Originally Posted by Coracao

Mata went down with cramp didn't he ?

it seems hard to believe now.

(hah. it was hard to believe when it happened.)

Originally Posted by Clarkie

Darmian had cramp I thought no?

Wasn't the sub I had an issue with, it was the player coming on to replace him. That was the issue

The main issue is that valencia is still at the club. And he is 1st or 2nd choice RB. Whichever way you look at it, its mind boggling.

LVGs 4 main players over the past year have been valencia, young, fellaini, rooney. He has showered them with praise for following his philosophy. Doesn't scream ajax 95 to me. More like dutch national team 2014.

Originally Posted by angrydimaria

The main issue is that valencia is still at the club. And he is 1st or 2nd choice RB. Whichever way you look at it, its mind boggling.

LVGs 4 main players over the past year have been valencia, young, fellaini, rooney. He has showered them with praise for following his philosophy. Doesn't scream ajax 95 to me. More like dutch national team 2014.

I honestly think Fellaini will play a big role again this year, especially if Rooney continues to lead the line. We lack height amongst our front 4, no matter what the option. As Spurs showed at the weekend, when we are being aggressively pressed, we will have to go long. There were more than five occasions on Saturday, that Romero kicked the ball out to Mata and I was left thinking WTF, but Rooney was never winning it against Alderweild (spelling) and Vertongen either.

People are loathe to admit it, and to be fair it is a weakness in our squad, but for all Fellaini's ineptitude with the ball at his feet, he does give us a plan B. Again looking back on Saturday, the amount of times that young received the ball out wide, cut back only to find Rooney, Memphis and Mata to cross to. For all the negativity, Fellaini would have given us a bigger threat as shown last year with Spurs at Old Trafford!

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

But the player not picked, by definition, wouldn't be a 1st pick player otherwise he'd be picked.

Other than last season I've not seen van gaal play with 2 actual strikers. 1 striker and a forward in the style of Yorke or cantona maybe. In which case he has numerous forwards who can play that role.

he wouldn't be if he was always overlooked in favour of the other.

but for me that shouldn't be the case anyway, and of course you also need an equal or better option in the case of injury, fatigue and suspension.

the other issue is that regardless of whether LVG has previously gone with 2 strikers he certainly needs to do so from time to time at United, whether that be from game to game or during a game.

as an aside, some people prefer to call 2 strikers with one through and one off as 1 up front, but essentially it is still 2 strikers. we need at least 2 1st pick strikers, but that doesn't mean they should have the same skill set - other than being able to score goals anyway. And we all know how gash LVG's United are at doing that, in the main so far anyhoo...