Are we allowed to talk about how shit Rashford is now?

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I think he's being told to take shots. He's worked closely with Ole by all accounts so it wouldn't be a tough thing to address. But when you bump the thread ten minutes after the final whistle and proclaim him not good enough it clearly is a reaction to last night.

The only time United actually play some football is when the ball gets into the front players. Martial, Rashford, Lingard and when he can be arsed Pogba are the only guys in this side I really trust to actually look after the ball.

After that bright start they barely saw the ball for 70 minutes. No forward is going to flourish in a team that can't pass.

Well, I can only speak for myself, but I'm talking more generally than just last night.

Originally Posted by Clownbones

Confidence will always play a part IMO. The best still need confidence.

He's low on it right now.

I do think his finishing has generally improved though. 12 months ago he just smashed everything. Now he's a little more selective.

The dink over Foster recently.... The shot he had across the keeper saved low to the bottom right against West Ham.

But even the idea that ole could come in and improve his finishing right away adds weight to the idea that he can make improvements right now with application.

Funny you say that because when he burst on the scene his range of finishes stood out. Using the defender to shape the ball around and into the top corner vs West Ham, slotting one in at the Etihad, run across the near post to meet a cross first time vs Villa...

Originally Posted by utd99

Agenda.

Funny thing is, I think the blind defence of certain players is more agenda driven than people just saying what they see

But anyway...

Originally Posted by Buck

Funny you say that because when he burst on the scene his range of finishes stood out. Using the defender to shape the ball around and into the top corner vs West Ham, slotting one in at the Etihad, run across the near post to meet a cross first time vs Villa...

True. Again I'd go back to confidence on that. It showed he can finish.

With more expectation comes managing that and not letting occasions get to you etc.

A timely reminder from Ole probably helped.

Don't think he's shown enough consistency to make him the player we build our attack around however I'd still definitely have him next season in our front 3 from the left
Get top class central and also wide right forwards and have a fluid front 3

He's not ready for the pressure of shouldering the burden of the Utd attack
One day but not now

The problem isn't Rashford as we shouldn't be expecting him to be our difference maker in the final third
It's Lukaku and Sanchez or more specifically their signings who deserve the criticism and responsibility for our attacking failings
They are the big money experienced attacking signings who are meant to shoulder the burden for the attack but instead to their shame it's on Rashford and Martial

Originally Posted by ZiggyStardust

Don't think he's shown enough consistency to make him the player we build our attack around however I'd still definitely have him next season in our front 3 from the left
Get top class central and also wide right forwards and have a fluid front 3

He's not ready for the pressure of shouldering the burden of the Utd attack
One day but not now

The problem isn't Rashford as we shouldn't be expecting him to be our difference maker in the final third
It's Lukaku and Sanchez or more specifically their signings who deserve the criticism and responsibility for our attacking failings
They are the big money experienced attacking signings who are meant to shoulder the burden for the attack but instead to their shame it's on Rashford and Martial

This.

Him and Martial can be excused for being inconsistent due to their age. Common trope in 21 year olds.

The older heads should do more.

Originally Posted by Clownbones

This.

Him and Martial can be excused for being inconsistent due to their age. Common trope in 21 year olds.

The older heads should do more.

Martial is 23

Needs to step up next season.

Year loan at Ipswich should do the trick. Get that confidence flowing again.

Originally Posted by AK14

Martial is 23

Needs to step up next season.

Still applies. Not at his peak.

Agreed we need more from him. As ever on here, we're guilty of being at one end of the spectrum.

They can be inconsistent because of their age AND we can expect more from them. I'd say that's the case with both of them, particularly Martial.

Originally Posted by Clownbones

Still applies. Not at his peak.

Agreed we need more from him. As ever on here, we're guilty of being at one end of the spectrum.

They can be inconsistent because of their age AND we can expect more from them. I'd say that's the case with both of them, particularly Martial.

Agree.

I’m not worried about Rashford tbh, I have confidence he’ll come good. Doesn’t mean we can’t criticise him if he’s constantly missing one v ones though, obvs.

Martial on the other hand will never make it here, just hasn’t got in him to lift himself to the next level IMO and for all the people saying clubs would be queuing up to take him off our hands I’m not so sure they would, not at the price we’d ask for anyway.

Originally Posted by Clownbones

Well, I can only speak for myself, but I'm talking more generally than just last night.

I know. But it's often the same story. We lose, people blame the players they don't like/have slagged before.

Rashford has ten league goals. He's only started 21 games. How many of those have actually been as a centre-forward? I think next season Ole will mould him as a striker and hopefully he'll go on to fulfil his potential. He's not in great form at the moment, but nobody is. People going after him after last night is baffling to me.

Originally Posted by Clownbones

Still applies. Not at his peak.

Agreed we need more from him. As ever on here, we're guilty of being at one end of the spectrum.

They can be inconsistent because of their age AND we can expect more from them. I'd say that's the case with both of them, particularly Martial.

Martial has one of the best strike rates in the league. Literally top four I think. Again, don't expect consistency from the front players if the rest of the team can't build the play and lets them go ten minutes without seeing the ball.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I know. But it's often the same story. We lose, people blame the players they don't like/have slagged before.

Rashford has ten league goals. He's only started 21 games. How many of those have actually been as a centre-forward? I think next season Ole will mould him as a striker and hopefully he'll go on to fulfil his potential. He's not in great form at the moment, but nobody is. People going after him after last night is baffling to me.



Martial has one of the best strike rates in the league. Literally top four I think. Again, don't expect consistency from the front players if the rest of the team can't build the play and lets them go ten minutes without seeing the ball.

I don't disagree with that. Martial strike rate is good because he's an excellent finisher. I think he's more talented than Rashford and is one of the most gifted players in the league.

Martial is more about application tbh. He was £#%&!ing shocking last week against West Ham. He just waited for things to happen. Took little to no responsibility and continues to need a kick up the arse every three games. Genuine concern that he will never sort that out.

He has more talent than Mane and Sterling IMO, but look how much harder those two world.

Helps when you're In a more cohesive side ofcourse.

Originally Posted by Clownbones

I don't disagree with that. Martial strike rate is good because he's an excellent finisher. I think he's more talented than Rashford and is one of the most gifted players in the league.

Martial is more about application tbh. He was £#%&!ing shocking last week against West Ham. He just waited for things to happen. Took little to no responsibility and continues to need a kick up the arse every three games. Genuine concern that he will never sort that out.

He has more talent than Mane and Sterling IMO, but look how much harder those two world.

Helps when you're In a more cohesive side ofcourse.

Same could be said about your post, pal.

Originally Posted by Clownbones

I don't disagree with that. Martial strike rate is good because he's an excellent finisher. I think he's more talented than Rashford and is one of the most gifted players in the league.

Martial is more about application tbh. He was £#%&!ing shocking last week against West Ham. He just waited for things to happen. Took little to no responsibility and continues to need a kick up the arse every three games. Genuine concern that he will never sort that out.

He has more talent than Mane and Sterling IMO, but look how much harder those two world.

Helps when you're In a more cohesive side ofcourse.

Martial is more talented than Rashford. He's one of the most talented players around.

But again, Rashford's goal record is good. Martial's goal record is good. We get them the ball they'll score. Watching us last night it's clear that the problems are further back. Going to Camp Nou with The Scottish Player, Fred and Pogba (in that form) in midfield. A defence that, Lindelof aside, can't play. It's a mess and being without certain players didn't help Ole.

Obviously last night was always a big ask. The result isn't a surprise. But even with absentees some of our issues are there. They can be fixed though. Shaw appears to be able to stay fit now. Dalot should grow. Get a partner for Lindelof and a couple of midfielders who aren't scared of the ball and it may surprise how quickly things turn and we start to look like a football team.

I do trust Ole to identify the issues, over to the club to do their part.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Martial is more talented than Rashford. He's one of the most talented players around.

But again, Rashford's goal record is good. Martial's goal record is good. We get them the ball they'll score. Watching us last night it's clear that the problems are further back. Going to Camp Nou with The Scottish Player, Fred and Pogba (in that form) in midfield. A defence that, Lindelof aside, can't play. It's a mess and being without certain players didn't help Ole.

Obviously last night was always a big ask. The result isn't a surprise. But even with absentees some of our issues are there. They can be fixed though. Shaw appears to be able to stay fit now. Dalot should grow. Get a partner for Lindelof and a couple of midfielders who aren't scared of the ball and it may surprise how quickly things turn and we start to look like a football team. I do trust Ole to identify the issues, over to the club to do their part.

100% agree pal

Originally Posted by ZiggyStardust

Delighted the recent turn of results and performances has given saffers the chance to bring his Jose agenda back on the table

Of course Mourihno had to go, but what has now been starkly demonstrated is that everything wasn't all his fault after all.

Who knew?

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

Of course Mourihno had to go, but what has now been starkly demonstrated is that everything wasn't all his fault after all.

Who knew?

Plenty of what is wrong with United is Mourinho's fault. And for that he was the wrong man. The fact we haven't been able to address it in a few months doesn't change that.

Some of us have been pointing at the issues above him for over five years. And they are clearly the bigger issues as they can't be fixed by changing the manager.

Originally Posted by The Stella Fella

Serious question.....

Which of the squad would you keep and are good enough??

Good enough for what? It depends what your aims are.

If your aim is to keep loitering around 4/5/6th every season then most of them are good enough.

However if you have loftier expectations of the self proclaimed "biggest club in the world", then I'd say pretty much none of them are good enough. The ones who show talent don't show it nearly often enough. Then there's the rest who don't have the talent but don't think they have to off set that with work rate.

Rashford has lots of pace but his finishing is average, his all round play with his team mates is severely lacking and ultimately he'll never be the player that the army of fanboys who make excuses for him think he'll be.

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

Of course Mourihno had to go, but what has now been starkly demonstrated is that everything wasn't all his fault after all.

Who knew?

Yep.

Same problems under the last two managers.

Ole is going to need to work miracles if the board continue to work the same way, which they will.

Originally Posted by Clownbones

Still applies. Not at his peak.

Agreed we need more from him. As ever on here, we're guilty of being at one end of the spectrum.

They can be inconsistent because of their age AND we can expect more from them. I'd say that's the case with both of them, particularly Martial.

If Rashford has a problem it’s execution, if Martial has a problem it’s application; totally different and I’d take Rashford all day if I had to choose.