3-3 here we come

quite rightly. not because he rested players (we all agree that is necessary) but because it means he chose the wrong game - i.e. when his judgement is at fault.

when he rests players and we get a result he should be given credit, for the same reason.

jem, your idea of starting with the strongest 11 every match is a non-starter, because it often takes an hour or more to find a way through some of the ten-man defences we get to play against, giving the likes of ronnie half an hour rest.

the point of rotating players is not only to give the first 11 a rest. the players who sit on the bench need match-time to keep them ready to step in when they are needed. fifteen minutes against a knackered and already beaten team won't do.

fergie has handled the squad superbly in the last few weeks, giving rests to some of the most irreplaceable players without dropping points. credit where it's due.

Originally Posted by Camel

i am going to coin a phrase and call it jemland. i worked hard thinking of that.

I think Jemima prefers @#%&!sville

Originally Posted by Camel

so reading came back to 3-2 and you're right for predicting the principle that it would be 3-3

the subs were always going to £#%&! us up. he shouldn't have taken of rooney and ronny, though.

what a wonderful world 'i'm always right' must be. i am going to coin a phrase and call it jemland. i worked hard thinking of that.

I think trop already called it jemtopia. so, you can either say "um... actually, it was a bit close there and I was a bit worried" or "ha, ha..... it wasn't actually 3-3 so what were you worried about?". up to you. 3-3 was not a prediction.

Originally Posted by Lazarus

It's amazing how this guy Ferguson keeps fluking and £#%&!ing up his way to titles,FA Cups and European trophies by rotating his squads when they have a festive fixture programme.

If jem was manager we'd win every single game without conceding or the opposition having any possession or joy.

With jem as MUFC boss we would win the treble every year by default.

laz, if I were in charge we would not have spent the last three years in the wilderness. :0)

Originally Posted by borsuk

quite rightly. not because he rested players (we all agree that is necessary) but because it means he chose the wrong game - i.e. when his judgement is at fault.

when he rests players and we get a result he should be given credit, for the same reason.

jem, your idea of starting with the strongest 11 every match is a non-starter, because it often takes an hour or more to find a way through some of the ten-man defences we get to play against, giving the likes of ronnie half an hour rest.

the point of rotating players is not only to give the first 11 a rest. the players who sit on the bench need match-time to keep them ready to step in when they are needed. fifteen minutes against a knackered and already beaten team won't do.

fergie has handled the squad superbly in the last few weeks, giving rests to some of the most irreplaceable players without dropping points. credit where it's due.

we're doing ok. but reading got a draw against us already (albeit thanks to a dodgy penalty) and a draw against chelsea. I never said play the strongest 11 in every game. but starting strong and taking players off when the game is won is fine if you actually have the goals to go with your dominance. reading were bound to chuck everything into the last 15 minutes, the substitutions came immediately after the goals and fletch and richardson to close down a game is just silly (hey, maybe they needed more than 15 minutes to get into the game and lose it for us, though). reading looked dangerous all game even though we dominated. both the goals we conceded were from shocking defending, incidentally (maybe fergie might want to give edwin a rest, too, eh?). ronaldo only played half the last game. I used to play four hours a day at his age.

In the last three years we finished 3rd,3rd,2nd (and second with a points haul good enough to win the league in all but two or three seasons). We won the FA cup and the League cup.

To me that isn't the wilderness - the wilderness is 26 years without a title.. 17th in the table under Big Ron.... Relegated in 73 under the Doc.

Originally Posted by jem

I used to play four hours a day at his age.

and it shows, jem, it shows...

now i understand why you took so long, brainwashing trop couldn't have been an easy task. i like jemptropia, though i prefer jemstalinism, has a nicer, accurate but deadlier ring to it

Originally Posted by Lazarus

In the last three years we finished 3rd,3rd,2nd (and second with a points haul good enough to win the league in all but two or three seasons). We won the FA cup and the League cup.

To me that isn't the wilderness - the wilderness is 26 years without a title.. 17th in the table under Big Ron.... Relegated in 73 under the Doc.

well, considering I'm such a gloryhunter who thinks we should win the treble every year, it's funny how I can credit the doc and big ron with some great football (especially cup football, but we'd have won the league under big ron a couple of times with any kind of luck with injuries) and good use of resources and yet I don't find fergie's performance recently up to scratch.

what we are doing now, we could have done for the last three years. injuries allowing. £#%&!ing hell, fergie even bought veron and managed to screw that up.

Originally Posted by Camel

now i understand why you took so long, brainwashing trop couldn't have been an easy task. i like jemptropia, though i prefer jemstalinism, has a nicer, accurate but deadlier ring to it

jemtropia?

Originally Posted by borsuk

and it shows, jem, it shows...

I played football too.

United have used virtually their entire first team squad over the festive period and picked up 9pts from 9 with 9 goals scored. 999! Another thing I noticed was that our home record is now 9 1 1

Also in my world United's squad has come of age, learnt how to win, and realised that it can challenge Chelsea. Meanwhile, take two players out of Chelsea's defence and they fall apart. It's a strange old world. Wonder if they'd be interested in buying Silvestre?

Originally Posted by jem

well, considering I'm such a gloryhunter who thinks we should win the treble every year, it's funny how I can credit the doc and big ron with some great football (especially cup football, but we'd have won the league under big ron a couple of times with any kind of luck with injuries) and good use of resources and yet I don't find fergie's performance recently up to scratch.

what we are doing now, we could have done for the last three years. injuries allowing. £#%&!ing hell, fergie even bought veron and managed to screw that up.

And there we have it.

Originally Posted by jem

well, considering I'm such a gloryhunter who thinks we should win the treble every year, it's funny how I can credit the doc and big ron with some great football (especially cup football, but we'd have won the league under big ron a couple of times with any kind of luck with injuries) and good use of resources and yet I don't find fergie's performance recently up to scratch.

what we are doing now, we could have done for the last three years. injuries allowing. £#%&!ing hell, fergie even bought veron and managed to screw that up.

Your words,not mine. You jumped to that conclusion.

I can remember not playing good football under Sexton,so what?

The fact is you are incapable of giving Ferguson any credit and you react bitterly and churlishly whenever he does well. If we don't win you are the first to have a dig..when we do,you still experiment with ways to have one.

If the man is capable of having such a powerfully negative effect on the team then he is also capable of influencing it positively.

You can dress it up any way you want but the fact is Fergie is managing superbly at the moment. You can see this just like anyone else but because you've devoted so much time to damning the man you choose to concentrate on past mistakes and a three years that wasn't great,resentful that he may prove you wrong.

Anyway - I'm going to have my lamb shanks and await a very exciting MOTD....At least I can enjoy this season.

Originally Posted by jem

veron and managed to screw that up.

Veron was a waste of space who couldn't cut it in the PL. He was even worse at Chelsea you'll remember...

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

And there we have it.

er... no. I think you misunderstand. I am saying that with some planning we'd have been in a far better position to do well, injuries allowing. I am not saying injuries were any excuse in the last three years. not at all. even allowing for scholes last year.

Originally Posted by Lazarus

Your words,not mine. You jumped to that conclusion.

I can remember not playing good football under Sexton,so what?

The fact is you are incapable of giving Ferguson any credit and you react bitterly and churlishly whenever he does well. If we don't win you are the first to have a dig..when we do,you still experiment with ways to have one.

If the man is capable of having such a powerfully negative effect on the team then he is also capable of influencing it positively.

You can dress it up any way you want but the fact is Fergie is managing superbly at the moment. You can see this just like anyone else but because you've devoted so much time to damning the man you choose to concentrate on past mistakes and a three years that wasn't great,resentful that he may prove you wrong.

Anyway - I'm going to have my lamb shanks and await a very exciting MOTD....At least I can enjoy this season.

they were precisely your words.

fergie is doing well at the moment (although we remain a couple of key injuries away from mediocrity, which is his fault - he's been very lucky this season.... as well as picking a decent team and playing decent football), but I am afraid I cannot forgive him for the last few years. the fact that he seems to have got it together for the moment simply by doing what we all suggested only makes me wonder more what the £#%&! he was up to when it was so obvious our midfield was stinking up the place and we needed a partnership up front.

Originally Posted by Father Christmas

Veron was a waste of space who couldn't cut it in the PL. He was even worse at Chelsea you'll remember...

veron was a far better player than carrick is. and we're doing just fine with carrick in the team. that's not a dig at carrick, far from it. veron was world class; fergie didn't know what to do with him most of the time.

Originally Posted by jem

that's not a dig at carrick, far from it. veron was world class; fergie didn't know what to do with him most of the time.

is blinkered rubbish. veron was generally poor when he came, in spite of fergie changing the organisation of the team in an attempt to help him. veron was fading when he came and went on to be pretty awful when he left.

if there's anything to criticise fergie for re veron it's that he bought a player who was on the slide. i don't remember anyone saying so at the time, though.

to ignore both veron's contribution and fergie's messing around with him, scholes and keane. and ruud.

so there.

Originally Posted by jem

get too the game, its not hard

Originally Posted by jem

we're doing ok.

Originally Posted by jem

fergie is doing well at the moment.

ah fair play to you jem

I wasn't calling you a gloryhunter. I think you're a bit of a moaner but I don't doubt you've followed the reds as much as the next man.

The point about the treble was more a reaction to what I think are your sometimes unrealistic,perfectionist expectations - and how if it was as easy as you imply you'd be winning trebles every year as manager

I agree that there are times when one can and should criticise Fergie - he didn't get nicknamed tinkerbell for nothing.

However,I think at 3-1 up at OT..against 10 man reading..taking off some key players to rest them for a match two days later during the Christmas programme is not outrageous, or that he deserves to be called a @#%&! for it. Yes,he could have been stung by it but most times one would not see that as being a likely scenario and hence the gamble is perfectly acceptable (and necessary at this time of the season).


Regarding Veron - he was awful at Chelsea too.

Originally Posted by jem

er... no. I think you misunderstand. I am saying that with some planning we'd have been in a far better position to do well, injuries allowing. I am not saying injuries were any excuse in the last three years. not at all. even allowing for scholes last year.

Luck with injuries was obviously far more of an issue in the old days in your world then.


To dismiss the impact of United's injuries (and suspensions if you count Rio esp.) over the last three seasons is utterly bizarre.

Here's just a few league appearance facts I've selected for you (cus that's the kind of guy I am):

05/06 Scholes 18 (2), Heinze 2 (2), Giggs 22 (5), Neville 24 (1), Keane 4 (1)

04/05 RvN 16 (1), Saha 7 (7), Ole 0, Heinze 26, Neville 22,

03/04 Saha 9 (3), Ole 7 (6), Scholes 24 (4), Keane 25 (3), Ronaldo 15 (4)