Can Berbatov and Carrick ever play in the same 11?

carrick's spell of poor form has coincided with our shift towards a more orthodox 4-4-2. for the last few years he's generally played in a team with rooney widish left and the nominal left midfielder tucked in to make a three. in other words he's generally been playing in a team that either matches or outnumbers the opposition in central midfield, allowing him to sit deep in a quarterback-style role.

this season we're playing a more traditional english midfield front six with two wide players committed to getting forward and aggressive full backs overlapping. that means the role is now playing as part of a two and that places much more emphasis on mobility. i suspect carrick is finding the transition difficult because his game is less naturally suited to being part of a midfield two. that might well explain his troubles. last night should have suited him, though, so it was worrying that he still looked uncomfortable.

incidentally, i'm of the opinion that the style we seem to be playing this season will suit the likes of anderson, fletcher and hargreaves, who are genuine box to box players and should find the role a natural fit.

I dunno about that borsuk, he's played in a midfield 3 in two of his 3 games this season hasn't he?

As I said at the time, we've pissed £18M up the wall on Carrick and £18M up the wall on Hargreaves. We couldn't afford Essien (£24M) and we cant afford Fabregas but we can afford £36M on 2 midfielders who simply aren't consistent enough of good enough. What a waste.

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

I dunno about that borsuk, he's played in a midfield 3 in two of his 3 games this season hasn't he?

depends how you see the team, i suppose. against spurs we played four nominal central midfielders in scholes, fletcher, giggs and anderson but it was probably the closest we've been for a few years to a genuine 4-4-2.

Originally Posted by Spiffy

As I said at the time, we've pissed £18M up the wall on Carrick and £18M up the wall on Hargreaves. We couldn't afford Essien (£24M) and we cant afford Fabregas but we can afford £36M on 2 midfielders who simply aren't consistent enough of good enough. What a waste.

hargreaves' injuries mean you have a point with him, but carrick has given us three years of excellent service and there is no reason to think he won't come through his current slump.

fabregas won't leave arsenal for another english club, nothing to do with affording him or not.

essien went to chelsea who had all kenyon's insider knowledge. do you know what he is on at chelsea? his bonus schemes, assorted promises etc? presumably you do, because i'm sure you wouldn't just pull a random figure out of your arse as a way of having a go at the club's transfer policies.

Originally Posted by borsuk

depends how you see the team, i suppose. against spurs we played four nominal central midfielders in scholes, fletcher, giggs and anderson but it was probably the closest we've been for a few years to a genuine 4-4-2.

Yeah but that was a game Carrick didn't play in????

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

Yeah but that was a game Carrick didn't play in????

i didn't say he did - it was just an example of how we're set up this year, the point being that we've played differently this season even when the personnel has been the same as previous seasons. without ronaldo we're set up differently and there are different demands on the m/f in particular.

Didn't Carrick and Berbatov combine brilliantly against Spurs in the cup last year?

Originally Posted by borsuk

i didn't say he did - it was just an example of how we're set up this year, the point being that we've played differently this season even when the personnel has been the same as previous seasons. without ronaldo we're set up differently and there are different demands on the m/f in particular.

maybe, personally i just think he's in dreadful form. Happens sometimes, not really seen it from Carrick before since he's signed imo.

Originally Posted by Spiffy

As I said at the time, we've pissed £18M up the wall on Carrick and £18M up the wall on Hargreaves. We couldn't afford Essien (£24M) and we cant afford Fabregas but we can afford £36M on 2 midfielders who simply aren't consistent enough of good enough. What a waste.

Carrick has been an integral part of a team that has won 3 league titles on the bounce and went to a semi and 2 finals of the CL, winning one in the 3 years he has been here.

By any standard he has been a success. He may be out of form at this moment but he is a class player and will come good.

Hargreaves when fit and available was a very important player for Utd, more than good enough if he could maintain fitness.

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

maybe, personally i just think he's in dreadful form. Happens sometimes, not really seen it from Carrick before since he's signed imo.

Exactly

Originally Posted by borsuk

hargreaves' injuries mean you have a point with him, but carrick has given us three years of excellent service and there is no reason to think he won't come through his current slump.

fabregas won't leave arsenal for another english club, nothing to do with affording him or not.

essien went to chelsea who had all kenyon's insider knowledge. do you know what he is on at chelsea? his bonus schemes, assorted promises etc? presumably you do, because i'm sure you wouldn't just pull a random figure out of your arse as a way of having a go at the club's transfer policies.

Do you have insider knowledge to suggest that Fabregas won't play for another English club? You wouldn't just post that without knowing it is factual would you?

Essien, no matter how much he's on, he's cheaper than Hargeaves and Carrick combined. He was £12M cheaper in the transfer fee for starters and that goes a long way towards bonuses and basics. Hargreaves and Carrick between them must be on what? £140K per week? Something like that no doubt. Throw in the extra £12M and you've got probably the highest earner in England.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Carrick has been an integral part of a team that has won 3 league titles on the bounce and went to a semi and 2 finals of the CL, winning one in the 3 years he has been here.

By any standard he has been a success. He may be out of form at this moment but he is a class player and will come good.

Hargreaves when fit and available was a very important player for Utd, more than good enough if he could maintain fitness.

You could say the same about Saha. Remind me how many games Hargreaves has won for us in the past 2 years.

Originally Posted by Spiffy

Do you have insider knowledge to suggest that Fabregas won't play for another English club? You wouldn't just post that without knowing it is factual would you?

Essien, no matter how much he's on, he's cheaper than Hargeaves and Carrick combined. He was £12M cheaper in the transfer fee for starters and that goes a long way towards bonuses and basics. Hargreaves and Carrick between them must be on what? £140K per week? Something like that no doubt. Throw in the extra £12M and you've got probably the highest earner in England.

Hang on a minute didn't Essien choose to go to another club rather than ours after agreeing a deal? Not an awful lot we can do about that I reckon.

Pretty amusing thread seeing as Carrick and Berbatov actually linked up very well at times last season.

No real surprise it was started by this idiot though.

Originally Posted by Spiffy

You could say the same about Saha. Remind me how many games Hargreaves has won for us in the past 2 years.

Remind me about Essiens injury record will you?

Needs to stop kicking it away when the opposition close him down.

Originally Posted by Spiffy

Do you have insider knowledge to suggest that Fabregas won't play for another English club? You wouldn't just post that without knowing it is factual would you?

Essien, no matter how much he's on, he's cheaper than Hargeaves and Carrick combined. He was £12M cheaper in the transfer fee for starters and that goes a long way towards bonuses and basics. Hargreaves and Carrick between them must be on what? £140K per week? Something like that no doubt. Throw in the extra £12M and you've got probably the highest earner in England.

iirc fabregas said something very similar, along the lines of after arsenal only spain would interest him. i may be wrong.

it doesn't matter how much essien is on. the fact is we couldn't compete with abramovich's wealth at the time. as was said ^^ we agreed a deal and then we got gazumped.

how you can say neither carrick or hargeaves are good enough or consistent enough is beyond me. both are clearly good enough (hargreaves' injuries are a different issue here) and carrick has been probably our most consistent performer for three years. the mind boggles at times, it really does.

Originally Posted by dodger

Hang on a minute didn't Essien choose to go to another club rather than ours after agreeing a deal? Not an awful lot we can do about that I reckon.

Well we could have upped the bid. We chose not to.

Originally Posted by dodger

Remind me about Essiens injury record will you?

Until he signed for Chelsea his record was pretty good wasn't it? Hargreaves was injury prone at Bayern.

You could argue Chelsea were unlucky with Essien's injuries but we knew what we were buying with Hargreaves.

Anyway, i think that Fergie should give Carrick a run out in the reserves along with Owen, Macheda, welbeck anf a few other squad players. Try and get him to play himself into form away from the spotlight. Certainlty worked for Anderson a coupla weeks back.