Marouane Fellaini

so, when mata isn't playing well its just who he is and he should be sold, but as soon as he starts to do exactly all the things you said he doesn't do: affect big games, show consistency, work rate. ...its him not being himself.

come on, Dunk. your criticism of him earlier in the season was perfectly valid and I agreed with a lot of it, but he's allayed a lot of those concerns now, surely?

Originally Posted by dunk

Schweinsteiger is in his 30's now isn't he?

31 on 1st of August.

Carrick with be 34 three days earlier.

He's a necessary evil at the moment. As long as he's played in an effective position and contributes I don't really care about his weaknesses, but I'm not sure he's part of a long term solution.

Originally Posted by Szekely

so, when mata isn't playing well its just who he is and he should be sold, but as soon as he starts to do exactly all the things you said he doesn't do: affect big games, show consistency, work rate. ...its him not being himself.

come on, Dunk. your criticism of him earlier in the season was perfectly valid and I agreed with a lot of it, but he's allayed a lot of those concerns now, surely?

He's had 3/4 decent games during which the vast majority of our play has been directed down the opposite side of the pitch from where he is

Just as I remain suspicious of Young (who's performances have been better for longer) and Fellaini, I'm not completely sold on Mata. And yes, the fact he appears a completely different player from the one we've seen throughout his United career since his 2 month 'break' does imply that he isn't being the player he used to be anymore, and all credit to him for adding the necessary to his game to get him in the team. Same with Young and Fellaini.

It's funny how everyone hated Fellaini and Young because they weren't good enough in the quality aspect but begrudgingly accept them due to their graft and discipline now they are playing well, yet gave Mata a constant and massive free pass due to his quality that was lacking the graft and discipline, but now he has shown a bit of the necessary no begrudging should be allowed, he should be embraced and lauded double standards right there.

Originally Posted by Semantic Lisp

Mata is in the position he's been most effective in since he joined, he just has a similar player to pop passes back and forth with atm (much as he had with kagawa during rare matches together). Fact is United doesn't seem to suit a genuine no 10, possibly because our tempo is dictated from a deeper position. The difference is that there's no-one outside him generally.

Carrick's role is the big issue for the whole team; there is no-one else who can do the job, yet the job is essential. LVG needs to have an alternative. At the moment Carrick being out will bring Blind infield (Arsenal's opener in the cup tie ) or see Rooney drop back and RvP come in. Another option might be to bring in Rafael, push Valencia to right sided narrow midfield and do the same with Fellaini on the left. Or he could use Jones as the screen in front of Smalling and Rojo. None of these seems satisfactory on paper to me, but all could work. If Rafael wasn't so reckless he could potentially be decent in front of the defence I suppose. How old is Schweinsteiger again?

valencia - rafael - blind midfield. sweet.

they are all really midfielders, after all.

Originally Posted by dunk

He's had 3/4 decent games during which the vast majority of our play has been directed down the opposite side of the pitch from where he is

Just as I remain suspicious of Young (who's performances have been better for longer) and Fellaini, I'm not completely sold on Mata. And yes, the fact he appears a completely different player from the one we've seen throughout his United career since his 2 month 'break' does imply that he isn't being the player he used to be anymore, and all credit to him for adding the necessary to his game to get him in the team. Same with Young and Fellaini.

It's funny how everyone hated Fellaini and Young because they weren't good enough in the quality aspect but begrudgingly accept them due to their graft and discipline now they are playing well, yet gave Mata a constant and massive free pass due to his quality that was lacking the graft and discipline, but now he has shown a bit of the necessary no begrudging should be allowed, he should be embraced and lauded double standards right there.

Because for the entirety of their five years + careers in this league, young and fellaini has proved themselves to be good but limited premier league players. hence why people suggest their maximising their limited potential now. mate, however, was the player of the year for two years for one of the best sides in the country and part of the best intentional side of the last five years. He has a completely different pedigree to young and fellaini

you say 'United career' as if he's been stinking the place out for years. he'd barely been here a year. A year which saw the tail end of Moyes appalling reign (the really shit bit) and the beginning of lvg's (the shit bit). and still within that time we saw glimpses of brilliance amidst, I agree, much inconsistency. But you're more prepared to judge him during a period of obvious transition involving two managers where virtually no players thrived, than during a time where a plan is clearly coming to fruition and lots of players are thriving. If he was the weal link you believe(d) he is, then he wouldn't be in a now flourishing side.

Its also inaccurate to point out that most of our play comes from the left. The left draws the attention because that's where fellaini is, but often when we overload that side, it's to free up the right and switch the play. Both goals at anfield, herrera's second against villa all came from the right. Mata has also popped up on the left as he did yesterday, fellaini on the right yesterday. they're interchanging and finally the very notion that Mata isn't as central to our success atm as anyone else would be laughable. He, herrera, young and fellaini are thriving in this system.

Originally Posted by Szekely

Because for the entirety of their five years + careers in this league, young and fellaini has proved themselves to be good but limited premier league players. hence why people suggest their maximising their limited potential now. mate, however, was the player of the year for two years for one of the best sides in the country and part of the best intentional side of the last five years. He has a completely different pedigree to young and fellaini

you say 'United career' as if he's been stinking the place out for years. he'd barely been here a year. A year which saw the tail end of Moyes appalling reign (the really shit bit) and the beginning of lvg's (the shit bit). and still within that time we saw glimpses of brilliance amidst, I agree, much inconsistency. But you're more prepared to judge him during a period of obvious transition involving two managers where virtually no players thrived, than during a time where a plan is clearly coming to fruition and lots of players are thriving. If he was the weal link you believe(d) he is, then he wouldn't be in a now flourishing side.

Its also inaccurate to point out that most of our play comes from the left. The left draws the attention because that's where fellaini is, but often when we overload that side, it's to free up the right and switch the play. Both goals at anfield, herrera's second against villa all came from the right. Mata has also popped up on the left as he did yesterday, fellaini on the right yesterday. they're interchanging and finally the very notion that Mata isn't as central to our success atm as anyone else would be laughable. He, herrera, young and fellaini are thriving in this system.

but apart from that

Originally Posted by believe

but apart from that

darn autocorrect.

getting sick of calling him Juan Mate along with Chris Smelling

Originally Posted by Szekely

Because for the entirety of their five years + careers in this league, young and fellaini has proved themselves to be good but limited premier league players. hence why people suggest their maximising their limited potential now. mate, however, was the player of the year for two years for one of the best sides in the country and part of the best intentional side of the last five years. He has a completely different pedigree to young and fellaini

you say 'United career' as if he's been stinking the place out for years. he'd barely been here a year. A year which saw the tail end of Moyes appalling reign (the really shit bit) and the beginning of lvg's (the shit bit). and still within that time we saw glimpses of brilliance amidst, I agree, much inconsistency. But you're more prepared to judge him during a period of obvious transition involving two managers where virtually no players thrived, than during a time where a plan is clearly coming to fruition and lots of players are thriving. If he was the weal link you believe(d) he is, then he wouldn't be in a now flourishing side.

Its also inaccurate to point out that most of our play comes from the left. The left draws the attention because that's where fellaini is, but often when we overload that side, it's to free up the right and switch the play. Both goals at anfield, herrera's second against villa all came from the right. Mata has also popped up on the left as he did yesterday, fellaini on the right yesterday. they're interchanging and finally the very notion that Mata isn't as central to our success atm as anyone else would be laughable. He, herrera, young and fellaini are thriving in this system.

Young was brilliant for Villa for 3 years and Fellaini widely regarded as unplayable for 2 or 3 years

What they've done previously wasn't taken into consideration, what Mata has done is?

I understand the tactics and what they are designed to do, but it's fair to say for all Mata's apparently outstanding form of the last 4 games, the truly outstanding players have been Young, Fellaini, Blind and Herrera, mainly, Mata has been an observer for a lot of it and done well getting on the end of things and grafting his arse off defensively.

He's barely been part of the Spanish side tbh, and now they are getting beat more often than not he's still nowhere near it.

He's had a rough ride at United because there has been no spot for him, and the players around him haven't complimented him, they've now found a role he can perform in and as throb says backed him up with Valencia and Herrera to give him the support he requires. Good to see and excellent management. He's still the one to go to from the opposition PoV if you want to get the ball back, easy to catch in possession and dispossess. Happened a few times yesterday, this is why they keep the play on the other side more often than not. He's not as bad as Di Maria though

"Getting on the end of things"

£#%&!ing hell.

Originally Posted by Ethers

"Getting on the end of things"

£#%&!ing hell.

That is what he did at Anfield, twice.

Originally Posted by dunk

That is what he did at Anfield, twice.

If you say so pal.

Originally Posted by Ethers

If you say so pal.

Originally Posted by Ethers

If you say so pal.

He was on the end of Herrera's pass and Di Maria's pass, not sure how else you'd describe it tbh.

Originally Posted by dunk

He was on the end of Herrera's pass and Di Maria's pass, not sure how else you'd describe it tbh.

World class finishing perhaps?

It wasn't as if he tapped them into an empty net from 3 yards out ffs.

Sad to see dunk seething because big Juan has outdone Welbeck's goals tally in a month.

Originally Posted by dunk

Young was brilliant for Villa for 3 years and Fellaini widely regarded as unplayable for 2 or 3 years

What they've done previously wasn't taken into consideration, what Mata has done is?

I understand the tactics and what they are designed ūto do, but it's fair to say for all Mata's apparently outstanding form of the last 4 games, the truly outstanding players have been Young, Fellaini, Blind and Herrera, mainly, Mata has been an observer for a lot of it and done well getting on the end of things and grafting his arse off defensively.

He's barely been part of the Spanish side tbh, and now they are getting beat more often than not he's still nowhere near it.

He's had a rough ride at United because there has been no spot for him, and the players around him haven't complimented him, they've now found a role he can perform in and as throb says backed him up with Valencia and Herrera to give him the support he requires. Good to see and excellent management. He's still the one to go to from the opposition PoV if you want to get the ball back, easy to catch in possession and dispossess. Happened a few times yesterday, this is why they keep the play on the other side more often than not. He's not as bad as Di Maria though

so carrick wasn't outstanding?

I think the opposition find it easiest to rob fellaini of the ball. ususually by standing 5ft away and waiting for him to trap it.

Originally Posted by dunk

He was on the end of Herrera's pass and Di Maria's pass, not sure how else you'd describe it tbh.

Not today pal...

Originally Posted by dunk

He was on the end of Herrera's pass and Di Maria's pass, not sure how else you'd describe it tbh.

"Yeah, Van Basten's goal was decent tbf, did well to get on the end of Muhren's cross I guess"

Originally Posted by dunk

Young was brilliant for Villa for 3 years and Fellaini widely regarded as unplayable for 2 or 3 years

What they've done previously wasn't taken into consideration, what Mata has done is?

I understand the tactics and what they are designed to do, but it's fair to say for all Mata's apparently outstanding form of the last 4 games, the truly outstanding players have been Young, Fellaini, Blind and Herrera, mainly, Mata has been an observer for a lot of it and done well getting on the end of things and grafting his arse off defensively.

He's barely been part of the Spanish side tbh, and now they are getting beat more often than not he's still nowhere near it.

He's had a rough ride at United because there has been no spot for him, and the players around him haven't complimented him, they've now found a role he can perform in and as throb says backed him up with Valencia and Herrera to give him the support he requires. Good to see and excellent management. He's still the one to go to from the opposition PoV if you want to get the ball back, easy to catch in possession and dispossess. Happened a few times yesterday, this is why they keep the play on the other side more often than not. He's not as bad as Di Maria though

if young was excellent for villa for three years why did nobody want him here? he was never that good for villa. fellaini may as well have arrived with stocks on his head with all the warmth he received. mata was one of valencia's main men and much sought after when a Chelsea side, who only really target stars, picked him up and he ended up being their player of the year two years running. remember his volley against us in the 3-3 draw?

you're seeing what you want to if you think Mata has been observing most of what we've been doing recently. He has three goals in three. Two of them clinical and one of them our goal of the season!

'getting on the end of things'. Jesus.

I bet you were a laugh riot in 99. yeah, all giggs really did was get on the end of Vieira's loose pass