*Official* Useless Bottlers v Swansea Match Thread- Teams & whatever

Originally Posted by shenwen

looks north east to me.

but point is, you think a kid from indonesia would buy merchandise because they see some shifty korean wearing it? Some teenager in Malaysia want Rooney on his back or Park?

I don't know the answer.

East Asia

Obviously there's going to be a ratio in favour of Park over the vast majority of the squad, shirt-sales wise. I was in Liepzig when South Korea played France in 2006 and the amount of United memorabilia on display was pretty disconcerting.
He's a Championship standard player, at very best. Complete embarrassment.

Originally Posted by shenwen

edit

Originally Posted by Don Gorgon

East Asia

Obviously there's going to be a ratio in favour of Park over the vast majority of the squad, shirt-sales wise. I was in Liepzig when South Korea played France in 2006 and the amount of United memorabilia on display was pretty disconcerting.
He's a Championship standard player, at very best. Complete embarrassment.

that map says singapore is east asia, mental. and wrong.

I see what you are saying. I have seen displays in Chinese stores where they have three lofe-size cut-outs - rooney, giggs and park. And I am sure that he shifts a huge number of shirts in Korea. But Southeast Asia very different, culturally. Not sure how much they would identify with an ethnic Chinese (or Korean )

Originally Posted by Tiberian

It is not just the midfield that is the only issue anymore. The defence is in transition, VDS/Rio/Vidic/Evra, all world class players at stages of their Utd career, but Ed has retired, Rio looks to be close to that stage, Vidic has a bad injury to return from and Evra is not the player of 2 years ago.

Add wide players who outside of Nani are rather limited in their creative options.

With Berbatov going I am not sure that Rooney/Welbeck and Hernandez is quite good enough as a group to challenge for major trophies. The 2 younger ones are both very raw still, Welbeck has some superb games and a lot of poor ones, Hernandez is limited. Add to that Rooney playing as a deep lying striker and not really suiting that role and there are a few areas that need to be improved this summer.

well ott. how you can criticise the defence and not mention rafael is beyond me tbh.

ddg's progress has been excellent, from a very dodgy weak link to a strong point of the side.

with vidic back and smalling, evans and jones to add to rio (who should be eased out over the next year imo) we're very well stocked at centre back.

full backs are a problem and us being linked with clyne and alba isn't a surprise. i don't think evra's been that bad this year tbh but rafael isn't making the progress i'd hope. lots of ability, fingers crossed, but he should be a back up to a reliable full back, not the best we can offer atm.

the wingers we have are very good imo. valencia, nani and young all offer something different and are good options. park needs to be moved on. the wingers suffer from a lack of options/pace/energy in the middle, makes them and us predictable, makes it easier to negate them.

rooney has had a poor season in spite of the goals but still represents our only real world-class talent in attack. i think welbeck has been excellent and the time he's got this season will really improve him, i only worry about burn out with him likely to go to the euros as a starter. in any case he's young and inexperienced, not a player we should be starting as our first-choice striker/partner for rooney imo. hernandez has been poor but i think that's been overstated and is, as i've said before, more due to him not having had a break for years and having a series of injuries than a lack of ability. berbatov and owen should be out the door.

midfield is the problem, we all know it. carrick is good but not great, scholes has shown us what a proper midfielder can do but he can't do it all the time. cleverley's season has been really disappointing, whoever we sign he needs to stay fit and be given some trust.

we need a full back, at least one quality midfielder and a striker. all high-quality, all ready to come straight into the first team. apart from that, we're in tip-top shape

Originally Posted by borsuk

i don't think evra's been that bad this year tbh but rafael isn't making the progress i'd hope.

can't get that at all.

both have been prone to silly mistakes but if I had to take one of them I think it would be rafael. at least he offers something exciting in attack and can be a tough little £#%&!er when he concentrates.

If I have to watch another evra "cross" while sitting anywhere in the vicinity of a razor blade, I fear for my wrists.

and let's not get on to the topic of captaincy, because I think there is a huge problem with evra there as the past six games have shown.

Originally Posted by shenwen

can't get that at all.

both have been prone to silly mistakes but if I had to take one of them I think it would be rafael. at least he offers something exciting in attack and can be a tough little £#%&!er when he concentrates.

If I have to watch another evra "cross" while sitting anywhere in the vicinity of a razor blade, I fear for my wrists.

and let's not get on to the topic of captaincy, because I think there is a huge problem with evra there as the past six games have shown.

maybe i wasn't very clear. t don't think evra's been that bad compared to the last couple of years is what i meant. he's been poor when he should be a senior player. rafael is very young, there's loads of time, but he shouldn't be the best right back we have. he makes far too many mistakes atm.

Originally Posted by borsuk

well ott. how you can criticise the defence and not mention rafael is beyond me tbh.

ddg's progress has been excellent, from a very dodgy weak link to a strong point of the side.

with vidic back and smalling, evans and jones to add to rio (who should be eased out over the next year imo) we're very well stocked at centre back.

full backs are a problem and us being linked with clyne and alba isn't a surprise. i don't think evra's been that bad this year tbh but rafael isn't making the progress i'd hope. lots of ability, fingers crossed, but he should be a back up to a reliable full back, not the best we can offer atm.

the wingers we have are very good imo. valencia, nani and young all offer something different and are good options. park needs to be moved on. the wingers suffer from a lack of options/pace/energy in the middle, makes them and us predictable, makes it easier to negate them.

rooney has had a poor season in spite of the goals but still represents our only real world-class talent in attack. i think welbeck has been excellent and the time he's got this season will really improve him, i only worry about burn out with him likely to go to the euros as a starter. in any case he's young and inexperienced, not a player we should be starting as our first-choice striker/partner for rooney imo. hernandez has been poor but i think that's been overstated and is, as i've said before, more due to him not having had a break for years and having a series of injuries than a lack of ability. berbatov and owen should be out the door.

midfield is the problem, we all know it. carrick is good but not great, scholes has shown us what a proper midfielder can do but he can't do it all the time. cleverley's season has been really disappointing, whoever we sign he needs to stay fit and be given some trust.

we need a full back, at least one quality midfielder and a striker. all high-quality, all ready to come straight into the first team. apart from that, we're in tip-top shape

This. The bottom paragraph is key. We simply haven't got the time to nurture some long term prospect into the position. We need to deliver someone with experience now. As we did last year and the year before.

Originally Posted by no fun

dont really want to get involved in this fight, but is there such a thing as a good aeroplane accident ?

An airbus 380 fully loaded with scousers coming into land at john lennon and crashing into a packed terminal, spilling the remaining fuel onto the nearby houses which then ignite.... nobody survives

Originally Posted by believe

where you live mate?

i am currently based in pune. formely of firswood.

Originally Posted by borsuk

well ott. how you can criticise the defence and not mention rafael is beyond me tbh.

ddg's progress has been excellent, from a very dodgy weak link to a strong point of the side.

with vidic back and smalling, evans and jones to add to rio (who should be eased out over the next year imo) we're very well stocked at centre back.

full backs are a problem and us being linked with clyne and alba isn't a surprise. i don't think evra's been that bad this year tbh but rafael isn't making the progress i'd hope. lots of ability, fingers crossed, but he should be a back up to a reliable full back, not the best we can offer atm.

the wingers we have are very good imo. valencia, nani and young all offer something different and are good options. park needs to be moved on. the wingers suffer from a lack of options/pace/energy in the middle, makes them and us predictable, makes it easier to negate them.

rooney has had a poor season in spite of the goals but still represents our only real world-class talent in attack. i think welbeck has been excellent and the time he's got this season will really improve him, i only worry about burn out with him likely to go to the euros as a starter. in any case he's young and inexperienced, not a player we should be starting as our first-choice striker/partner for rooney imo. hernandez has been poor but i think that's been overstated and is, as i've said before, more due to him not having had a break for years and having a series of injuries than a lack of ability. berbatov and owen should be out the door.

midfield is the problem, we all know it. carrick is good but not great, scholes has shown us what a proper midfielder can do but he can't do it all the time. cleverley's season has been really disappointing, whoever we sign he needs to stay fit and be given some trust.

we need a full back, at least one quality midfielder and a striker. all high-quality, all ready to come straight into the first team. apart from that, we're in tip-top shape

I agree that the overall potential of the squad is a lot better than people suggest.

But regarding Rafael, I think he needs to learn on the pitch. It's easy to forget that he hadn't played a professional match before signing for United. He's still fairly inexperienced and only starting ten league games this season won't have helped his development. He's got a lot going for him, but things like positional sense and tracking players are qualities that come over time and with experience. Relegating him to back-up isn't the answer, imo. I'd like to see him as first choice next season. A year or two down the line, with more games under his belt, he should be on the way to becoming an outstanding player.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Rafael had a poor defensive game against Everton and made that mistake against Bilbao but apart from that his defending has been ok. He gets blamed for the Mata goal at Chelsea, which was a world class cross and volley.

That mistake against Bilbao was about as basic as it gets, although I must admit it didn't annoy me too much as I saw the Europa as a chore and distraction which could prevent us retaining the title. If anything, it was a relief that such a wake-up call came in what I saw as a meaningless game. I thought a proper professional would sort their act out and make sure they cut out those stupid, avoidable errors that gift goals to the opposition, but instead he went on to make another basic, fatal error which has effectively cost us the title.

Don't recall anyone blaming him for the Mata goal. He makes more than enough clear-cut howlers on his own without people falsely attributing errors to him.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I agree that the overall potential of the squad is a lot better than people suggest.

But regarding Rafael, I think he needs to learn on the pitch. It's easy to forget that he hadn't played a professional match before signing for United. He's still fairly inexperienced and only starting ten league games this season won't have helped his development. He's got a lot going for him, but things like positional sense and tracking players are qualities that come over time and with experience. Relegating him to back-up isn't the answer, imo. I'd like to see him as first choice next season. A year or two down the line, with more games under his belt, he should be on the way to becoming an outstanding player.

I accept this point regarding positioning which is a fairly complex skill. But by and large, tracking players is down to concentration and common sense.

The error he made vs Bilbao and the one against Everton would look shoddy on a Sunday league pitch, never mind from a player who's been in our first team squad for nearly 4 years.

tbf to Rafael, he's being coached by Phelan and that other tit. Who's actually got better under their tutelage? Compare that to the huge strides Big Dave's made in just a season, working with Eric Steele.

Evra is mouthing off again, btw

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

Evra is mouthing off again, btw

What's he said?

Originally Posted by The Watcher

tbf to Rafael, he's being coached by Phelan and that other tit. Who's actually got better under their tutelage? Compare that to the huge strides Big Dave's made in just a season, working with Eric Steele.

remember reading something about eric steele taking spanish lessons six months before ddg got here, and seeing him go over to hug steele the other week shows the bond that's there

i know steele has less to do but i doubt very much phelan does that kind of thing
queiroz definitely paid a lot of attention to ronaldo, nani and anderson especially
in other words phelan should take his shorts and £#%&! off

Originally Posted by MJ Ramone

What's he said?

The empire isn't crumbling, we'll be better next year and some other %@#$&!s like that

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

Evra is mouthing off again, btw

Originally Posted by thenorthwillriseagain

remember reading something about eric steele taking spanish lessons six months before ddg got here, and seeing him go over to hug steele the other week shows the bond that's there

i know steele has less to do but i doubt very much phelan does that kind of thing
queiroz definitely paid a lot of attention to ronaldo, nani and anderson especially
in other words phelan should take his shorts and £#%&! off

It's telling that every previous assistent of Fergie's was regularly linked with other managerial positions, before eventually leaving for one of them. In contrast, no one wants Phelan

tbf, I believe it's Meulensteen that actually coaches the players, when he's not busy making a @#%&! of himself on dutch tv. £#%&! knows what Phelan actually does.

Originally Posted by The Watcher

It's telling that every previous assistent of Fergie's was regularly linked with other managerial positions, before eventually leaving for one of them. In contrast, no one wants Phelan

good point.