Van Gaal has to be sacked TONIGHT

Originally Posted by Sapien

Yep often thought we should be hiring a Europa League specialist.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

really? we've only failed to qualify for the cl twice in two decades.

Yes but it's twice in the last 3 years now. Which is far more alarming.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Yes but it's twice in the last 3 years now. Which is far more alarming.

true. that bloke at seville's good at winning the europa league. or was

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

would be an ideal time to bring someone in with less pressure, maybe someone that knows the europa league well. the vermin got klopp with no cl. chelsea have got conte with no cl. city have got guardiola despite going backwards since fluking the title in 2012...

Originally Posted by That Boy Ronaldo!

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

i don't believe you can say the media turned the fans at all tbh, not the mainstream media anyway. they pretty much went after van gaal from day one. the real difference between now and back then is social media and the way the mainstream latch onto it. nqat social media (and forums) have an influence on the way TV football presentations are scripted. it gives mainstream space to the voice of people whining on the internet. is that because the noise they make is valid? or is that because it's the only way to get their attention? on the other hand, circulation of print media has collapsed.

I dunno if the media went after Van Gaal from the start. Tbh the media don't give that much of a shit about him , Mourinho or anyone else individually. They love a story, and putting the battery into the backs of people like Scholes and Rio and encouraging them to get angry after games was gold for them. It was like FullTimeDevils at times and the BT were loving it. I remember one occasion Scholes refused to categorically say LvG should be sacked and that Humphreys @#%&! threw his hands in the air in frustration

United fans used Scholes' name while chanting against the team. Clearly it was a charge in the disconnect.

If Mourinho does come, I will look forward to how he deals with all the Fergie old boys who clearly love their sense of ownership over the "United way" etc. He'll be far less timid in standing his ground than LvG. Would make for great TV tbf

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I dunno if the media went after Van Gaal from the start. Tbh the media don't give that much of a shit about him , Mourinho or anyone else individually. They love a story, and putting the battery into the backs of people like Scholes and Rio and encouraging them to get angry after games was gold for them. It was like FullTimeDevils at times and the BT were loving it. I remember one occasion Scholes refused to categorically say LvG should be sacked and that Humphreys @#%&! threw his hands in the air in frustration

United fans used Scholes' name while chanting against the team. Clearly it was a charge in the disconnect.

If Mourinho does come, I will look forward to how he deals with all the Fergie old boys who clearly love their sense of ownership over the "United way" etc. He'll be far less timid in standing his ground than LvG. Would make for great TV tbf

but the point was that scholes was saying what shit loads of the fans had been saying for ages.

tbh i was more disappointed that scholes had turned out to be such a shit pundit. i was really expecting him to have some insightful commentary on the various tactics united had used while he was a player. for example, a few pointers as to what caused united to struggle so much when fergie went to a lone striker and tried to get the team playing possession football in the 1st half of the 00s... and between 03/04 to 05/06 we weren't exactly exhilarating to watch very often and he was one of the mainstays in that period, after all.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I dunno if the media went after Van Gaal from the start. Tbh the media don't give that much of a shit about him , Mourinho or anyone else individually. They love a story, and putting the battery into the backs of people like Scholes and Rio and encouraging them to get angry after games was gold for them. It was like FullTimeDevils at times and the BT were loving it. I remember one occasion Scholes refused to categorically say LvG should be sacked and that Humphreys @#%&! threw his hands in the air in frustration

United fans used Scholes' name while chanting against the team. Clearly it was a charge in the disconnect.

If Mourinho does come, I will look forward to how he deals with all the Fergie old boys who clearly love their sense of ownership over the "United way" etc. He'll be far less timid in standing his ground than LvG. Would make for great TV tbf

Well there's one sure way of shutting all the ex players/managers and the media up - Win football matches. Nobody has jack shit to say when you're winning football matches. The fact is United have lost 15 matches this season which is roughly one every 2 weeks. It's made it extremely easy to stick the boot in on a regular basis and when you have a couple of months like United did in November/December then your season never recovers.

Originally Posted by wiganste

So what's our excuse? Van gaal is a managerial dinosaur. You can post as many 40,000 word essays with tactical images with arrows and dots and other such shite. It doesn't make van Gaals United look any better. Bore off you c***

ffs

Originally Posted by Denis Irwell

saffers & co copping both barrels from siders' Winchester. Nice imagery.

On another note, how the £#%&! did the board, (incl Ferie) sanction that £#%&!ing ridiculous Rooney contract? Hate to rub salt in your wounds, riccers, but when you look at the players Moyes let slip through his fingers and then does this..

Have never clashed with big siders.... Too much respect for the lad.

Gone up in my estimation for sticking it out and fighting despite his man letting us all down, seems the watcher and sers left siders in the lurch. Bunks and the rest of the cardie crew quietly got Mourinho tattoos.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

but the point was that scholes was saying what shit loads of the fans had been saying for ages.

tbh i was more disappointed that scholes had turned out to be such a shit pundit. i was really expecting him to have some insightful commentary on the various tactics united had used while he was a player. for example, a few pointers as to what caused united to struggle so much when fergie went to a lone striker and tried to get the team playing possession football in the 1st half of the 00s... and between 03/04 to 05/06 we weren't exactly exhilarating to watch very often and he was one of the mainstays in that period, after all.

Yeah, he's an awful pundit tbh. Contrast to Neville, who I remember around the same time was acknowledging that he doesn't especially enjoy watching us, but said he felt we did plenty of things well and maybe if we added some stardust we'd be very close. Scholes, on the other hand, just slaughtered the manager constantly for weeks; he was to blame for everything - this while we were actually doing alright results wise. For me it was impatience and overreaction. I'm not surprised LvG partly blames him for the fans turning.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Well there's one sure way of shutting all the ex players/managers and the media up - Win football matches. Nobody has jack shit to say when you're winning football matches. The fact is United have lost 15 matches this season which is roughly one every 2 weeks. It's made it extremely easy to stick the boot in on a regular basis and when you have a couple of months like United did in November/December then your season never recovers.

We have recovered fairly well in recent months tbf. I think we were on 7 wins and a draw from 10 in the league ahead of West Ham, or something like that. It was an improvement, but there are clear limitations in the side which meant a significant improvement was always unlikely. My issue was always that shared responsibility is the best way to improve. Allowing the players to let the manager take the heat is unhealthy. As Rooney himself said recently.

With Scholes he always seems stunned and bewildered by how bad and boring United have become compared to his time at the club.

It's more exasperated confusion than aggressive slaughtering imo...

Originally Posted by Venceremos

With Scholes he always seems stunned and bewildered by how bad and boring United have become compared to his time at the club.

It's more exasperated confusion than aggressive slaughtering imo...

How Giggs has always looked then.

The excuses that are still being reeled out

We've won more than 2 games on the bounce in the league this season on just 1 occasion.

Scored less goals than the side who finished 17th.

He has us playing incredibly dull football, after record amounts of money spent, mostly on players who aren't good enough or he can't get the best out of.

Just how bad does it need to get?

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Yeah, he's an awful pundit tbh. Contrast to Neville, who I remember around the same time was acknowledging that he doesn't especially enjoy watching us, but said he felt we did plenty of things well and maybe if we added some stardust we'd be very close. Scholes, on the other hand, just slaughtered the manager constantly for weeks; he was to blame for everything - this while we were actually doing alright results wise. For me it was impatience and overreaction. I'm not surprised LvG partly blames him for the fans turning.

van gaal isn't stupid, he doesn't really think scholes turned the fans.

we've played some brilliant football under van gaal. but rarely for more than 30 minutes at a time and hardly ever for an entire game. and there's been far too much shit in between. goals take the pressure of the defence, trusting the defence takes the pressure off the strikers. we've got no leadership in the entire spine. our best organiser and reader of the game is blind. he's out of his depth unless everyone else knows what they are doing as well - he's not what you think of when you think of a leader. nor is carrick, who's missed half the season (hence i've discounted him.)

blind and martial aside, the only bright sparks this season have been the youngsters and none of them should have the pressure of carrying manchester united on the pitch. thank £#%&! for the fa cup or this season would have been a complete write off weeks ago.

i would still give van gaal the window though, unless it stops united getting the man they want. if that man is giggs then van gaal is going to have to seriously raise his game for it to have the remotest chance of working imo.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

van gaal isn't stupid, he doesn't really think scholes turned the fans.

we've played some brilliant football under van gaal. but rarely for more than 30 minutes at a time and hardly ever for an entire game. and there's been far too much shit in between. goals take the pressure of the defence, trusting the defence takes the pressure off the strikers. we've got no leadership in the entire spine. our best organiser and reader of the game is blind. he's out of his depth unless everyone else knows what they are doing as well - he's not what you think of when you think of a leader. nor is carrick, who's missed half the season (hence i've discounted him.)

blind and martial aside, the only bright sparks this season have been the youngsters and none of them should have the pressure of carrying manchester united on the pitch. thank £#%&! for the fa cup or this season would have been a complete write off weeks ago.

i would still give van gaal the window though, unless it stops united getting the man they want. if that man is giggs then van gaal is going to have to seriously raise his game for it to have the remotest chance of working imo.

Generally you can take him at his word. I think he feels that during a time when calm and perspective was needed, that really didn't help. United had gone from 7th to 4th to being top or thereabouts in the Autumn. As dodgy as the football had been, it wasn't cause for mass criticism. I genuinely think he feels that period caused a fractured relationship with the fans. Remember Lingard saying that the players were learning to block out the fans? That's a horrific vibe to have around the club, especially during such disruptions due to injuries.

But aside from all that, I didn't like that criticism from Giggs' ex teammates and friends because it massively undermined the manager. I'm expecting it to be something he talks about when he's relieved of his duties. Having his assistant's mate in the press hammering him every week. Bet that was a new one, even for him.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

But aside from all that, I didn't like that criticism from Giggs' ex teammates and friends because it massively undermined the manager. I'm expecting it to be something he talks about when he's relieved of his duties. Having his assistant's mate in the press hammering him every week. Bet that was a new one, even for him.

Are you saying you think rio and scholes aren't allowed to say what they think in their media roles, because they used to play with the assistant manager?

Originally Posted by Alan

Are you saying you think rio and scholes aren't allowed to say what they think in their media roles, because they used to play with the assistant manager?

The nature of Scholes' criticism was clearly compromised by him being very public mates with someone on the staff. We had this debate at the time, and it astounded me how many refused to acknowledge how disruptive it was. Literally every fan of every other team I spoke to thought it was strange. From the club's point of view, getting Giggs to be a bit more vocal would have been a wise move.

Very awkward and unusual situation, though.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

The nature of Scholes' criticism was clearly compromised by him being very public mates with someone on the staff. We had this debate at the time, and it astounded me how many refused to acknowledge how disruptive it was. Literally every fan of every other team I spoke to thought it was strange. From the club's point of view, getting Giggs to be a bit more vocal would have been a wise move.

Very awkward and unusual situation, though.

It can't have helped - and it alluded to a much greater disconnect between Giggs and van gaal and by association the senior players and van gaal. And I think that has shown in the performances we've seen.

Overall, I get the impression that van gaal has failed to connect properly with our senior players - he seems to have an uncompromising style/approach with little room for flexibility. He needed to get more of them onside more quickly and as necessary compromise when concerns were raised. But he seemed to plough on, because he's Louis van gaal, clip boarding the £#%&! out of them.

All of it goes away pretty quickly if the uncompromising style shows itself to be effective but when it doesn't, and more often than not actually fails, then it undermines the approach.

So for me, Scholes critisism simply highlights further failings of the 'soon to be over' van gaal era.

As per the other thread, I like football well enough but this £#%&!ing soap opera shit doesn't help.