Manchester United v Bournemouth - EPL 3pm 09/12/23 - Official Match Thread

Ok ok there is not getting through to them…

Ok riddle me this…

So as a United manager, what things are ETH getting right?

What is he currently showing us that indicates we just have to stick by him?
What progress has he given us a glimpse of in the last let’s say 20-25 games?


a rule of thumb, when you and rival fans both want to keep our manager in the dugout…it kinda says something.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

It's also worth pointing out that in that starting 11 today only Antony and the goalkeeper are Ten Hag's permanent signings..

And thank god for that…

Imagine a team full of his signings

Originally Posted by marlo

Ok ok there is not getting through to them…

Ok riddle me this…

So as a United manager, what things are ETH getting right?

What is he currently showing us that indicates we just have to stick by him?
What progress has he given us a glimpse of in the last let’s say 20-25 games?


a rule of thumb, when you and rival fans both want to keep our manager in the dugout…it kinda says something.



And thank god for that…

Imagine a team full of his signings

Do you mean yourself, or yours truly?

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Yes you can inherit a team and make it better. That's hardly a stunning revelation. It's very easy to point at manager like say, Graham Potter and say look what he's doing with Brighton. Pluck them out of that environment and parachute them into a £#%&!ing basket case like Chelsea and watch it swallow them up.

Manchester United doesn't need a "manager who will make a silk purse out of a sows ear" they need a complete £#%&!ing scorched earth rebuild.



Larry, sometimes I'll type glib things on the internet because it sounds funny.

brilliant

Originally Posted by marlo

Ok ok there is not getting through to them…

Ok riddle me this…

So as a United manager, what things are ETH getting right?

What is he currently showing us that indicates we just have to stick by him?
What progress has he given us a glimpse of in the last let’s say 20-25 games?


a rule of thumb, when you and rival fans both want to keep our manager in the dugout…it kinda says something.



And thank god for that…

Imagine a team full of his signings

Not team ange anymore pal....?

Originally Posted by marlo

Ok ok there is not getting through to them…

Ok riddle me this…

So as a United manager, what things are ETH getting right?

What is he currently showing us that indicates we just have to stick by him?
What progress has he given us a glimpse of in the last let’s say 20-25 games?

And that's it in a nutshell. I've yet to hear a good answer when it has been raised before. There's nothing really that anyone can point to. There's excuses people make for the performances (injuries, refs, glazers, the sale) but it's impassible to point out the things he's actually doing well this season.

You want to know where the problem lies, it's simple:

70% of the ball
20 shots
10 corners
3 shots on target

By comparison Bournemouth had 10 shots managed 4 on target and 3 went in.

Thats our biggest problem and it's staring us in the face. We quite simply don't score or create enough when we have the ball.

The only teams in the ENTIRE league that have scored fewer goals than Manchester United are (drum roll please) Luton, Burnley and Sheffield United.

The 3 teams in right at the bottom. We are currently on a par with the 3 worst teams in the league when it comes to scoring goals.

We've conceded less than Spurs, Brighton, the same amount as villa but when it comes to scoring goals we are the 4th worst in the entire division. Now why is that? Well when you look at the personnel at our disposal it's hardly surprising is it.

Originally Posted by Bunker Buster

Here comes "team Emery"

That's because they look right @#%&!s still being "Team Ange".

Well it’s the personnel and obviously the way they are setup as well. And then ultimately it’s how much responsibility for that you want to assign to the manager.

You can’t absolve him of all blame for the personnel. He’s been here long enough and had enough funds to have better options than Antony and Martial and Mount and Hojlund at his disposal. Given the fact that the more of his signings come in, the worse we seem to be playing doesnt reflect well either.

That said there’s no doubt some of the players we have are better than they are currently showing. So he’s also not been able to create an environment or a way of playing to maximise their talent in a consistent manner (this season).

Originally Posted by Gypsum Fantastic

Well it’s the personnel and obviously the way they are setup as well. And then ultimately it’s how much responsibility for that you want to assign to the manager.

You can’t absolve him of all blame for the personnel. He’s been here long enough and had enough funds to have better options than Antony and Martial and Mount and Hojlund at his disposal. Given the fact that the more of his signings come in, the worse we seem to be playing doesnt reflect well either.

That said there’s no doubt some of the players we have are better than they are currently showing. So he’s also not been able to create an environment or a way of playing to maximise their talent in a consistent manner (this season).

Fair point. He'll get sacked eventually. These type of performances and results cannot continue in perpetuity, something will have to give at some stage.

We'll see what happens if and when this mythical Ratcliffe investment happens, if he decides that Ten Hag isn't up to it then i'm sure he'll pull the trigger.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

You want to know where the problem lies, it's simple:

70% of the ball
20 shots
10 corners
3 shots on target

By comparison Bournemouth had 10 shots managed 4 on target and 3 went in.

Thats our biggest problem and it's staring us in the face. We quite simply don't score or create enough when we have the ball.

The only teams in the ENTIRE league that have scored fewer goals than Manchester United are (drum roll please) Luton, Burnley and Sheffield United.

The 3 teams in right at the bottom. We are currently on a par with the 3 worst teams in the league when it comes to scoring goals.

We've conceded less than Spurs, Brighton, the same amount as villa but when it comes to scoring goals we are the 4th worst in the entire division. Now why is that? Well when you look at the personnel at our disposal it's hardly surprising is it.

Oh but i was being a slapped arse when i said in the summer we need goals.

We didn’t need mount or a gk.


dunk the #@&%! said we score more then the pitiful 58 league goals we scored last season.

this was always going to happen ,
“We are in big trouble” - this is the trouble i was referring to.

think about it. We have to play Liverpool, Bayern, city amongst others and our forward line is Hojlund, Anthony and rashford!

this season is panning out just as bad as i thought.
The signs were there in pre season where after the first half of the arsenal game we were beaten but every other good team except that shit french one.

Our last 5 games at OT, we’ve lost 3 of the 3-0.
Manchester United getting battered 3-0 every other game….what did ETH say about Sancho and that standards expected at united?


Another thing ETH said he never take the job here if we didn’t have full control of transfers so how will that work?

It is not the personnel, although it is heartening to see it finally sinking into some heads that Ten Hag is a defence-first manager who chiefly plays for a 1-0 win and whose teams absolutely fall apart when they need to chase games (hence the cricket-sized scores away from home against top 10 opposition once the first goes in, time and time and time again).

It is the system and the manager. An attack including Portuguese, English, Brazilian and Argentinian forwards do not put up 50-year outlier numbers. This level of extremity is on the manager. There are tail risks and then there is being so far off the curve you land a half century ago when much of television was still black and white.

It was highlighted last season, when the team was in the bottom 5% for goals scored by top 4 sides in the past 25 years. It has worsened in his second season as opposition manager have got a better grip on him.

It has been endemic since the beginning, really. Rashford and the world class Varane/Martinez/Casemiro triangle covered for the failings of his system for a while, but it was not sustainable (Especially given Rashford's enormous inconsistencies).

Originally Posted by atticusgrinch

The Scottish Player is in great form. He was undroppable unfortunately.

he is not in great form. he has scored a couple of goals, but offers £#%&! all the rest of the time. yes, goals are important, but still.... not great form.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Or we just throw an 18 year old kid in there to try and dictate an entire midfield on his own.

no one is suggesting playing mainoo on his own except 10h. because it is what he does. that's the problem.

Originally Posted by VanHaaksbergen

it is heartening to see it finally sinking into some heads that Ten Hag is a defence-first manager who chiefly plays for a 1-0 win

this is so far from the truth that it beggars belief. he is a pressing, intensity, attacking, £#%&! the midfield, front foot or bust manager, whose formation ahead of the back four is ridiculously unbalanced in favour of dilettante attackers.

he wants to be a possession first manager, for sure, but our passing around the back is awful and our ability to keep possession anywhere when pressed ourselves is non-existent. we have had shitloads of the ball in attacking positions, with maguire playing centre forward and right wing half the time and the fullbacks constantly way up the field.

it's £#%&!ed up, but it is absolutely not defence-first. we have no control in the midfield, which we could have with mainoo and amrabat playing together, especially mainoo, who doesn't give the ball away. and our forwards don't play for each other (except rasmus, who is a bit deferential and needs to be a bit more £#%&!ing demanding of these stupid, selfish, blind @#%&!s around him).

defence first? you plum.

Originally Posted by jem

he is a pressing, intensity, attacking, £#%&! the midfield, front foot or bust manager, whose formation ahead of the back four is ridiculously unbalanced in favour of dilettante attackers.
...
we have had shitloads of the ball in attacking positions, with maguire playing centre forward and right wing half the time and the fullbacks constantly way up the field.
...
it's £#%&!ed up, but it is absolutely not defence-first.
...
defence first? you plum.

This, I suspect, goes someway to explaining why I am where I am in London, and you are doing .. whatever bureaucratic paper-pushing nonsense it is you do here. Let me try and help you - it may be the last reply you get from me, as you are something of a lost cause. Savour it:

- 22 clean sheets in 54 games. Separate goalkeepers top for clean sheets in both seasons of management.
- 20 clean sheets in 40 games against teams outside immediate top 5/places around us.
- 2 or more goals conceded in only 5 of the 40 games against teams outside the top 5 places/places around us in respective seasons. Today was the fifth.

Comparatively:
- 18 League goals scored this season in 16 games on track for lowest in 49 seasons.
- 58 League goals scored last season lowest for a top 4 team since Everton in 04/05 with Tim Cahill and Leon Osman up front & Liverpool w/ 57 goals with Peter Crouch and Dirk Kuyt up top.

Squeal all the rhetoric and drivel you like. "Front foot or bust", "attacking", "unbalanced in favour of dilettante attackers", "not defence first".

The reality and the data absolutely tears you apart. This is a defensively minded manager, producing generally good defensive numbers and generationally-bad attacking numbers from a number of international forwards, who plays for odd-goal wins which often works against dross but who is habitually torn apart against decent teams who score first when he needs to chase the game. It is not debatable. It is a hard statistical fact.

Still unbelievable to think we are 3-0 down and on comes Beek and Johnny Evans . Rock bottom.

Originally Posted by shenwen

Still unbelievable to think we are 3-0 down and on comes Beek and Johnny Evans . Rock bottom.

Donny didn't come on and Evans was to replace an injured Shaw.....

Originally Posted by Bunker Buster

Donny didn't come on and Evans was to replace an injured Shaw.....

I'd stopped watching. Even having them as options is testament to where we are at.

Originally Posted by shenwen

I'd stopped watching. Even having them as options is testament to where we are at.

This is also true ....

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

https://x.com/mufcscoop/status/17335...aSbh7vgQsN2lEQ

Polite way of saying he knows we’re shit.

Any manager with a bit of tactical knowledge does well against us. We beat Chelsea because they went for it like we did with no plan.

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

https://x.com/mufcscoop/status/17335...aSbh7vgQsN2lEQ

Polite way of saying he knows we’re shit.

Any manager with a bit of tactical knowledge does well against us. We beat Chelsea because they went for it like we did with no plan.

Ten Hag is trying to play attacking controlling football, fair enough, but it takes time to build a side to get there. Why can’t he just go back to basics, solidify the team, pack the midfield and use the attackers better. Get a few results with solid performances and build off it.

He’s trying to play a way he can’t with that team.

We have become a club living off isolated "good"results. The win against Chelsea and the online reds on YT are going on about top four being secured. Embarrassing.

Amazing how success has been redefined at the club...

Originally Posted by Sparky***

You want to know where the problem lies, it's simple:

70% of the ball
20 shots
10 corners
3 shots on target

By comparison Bournemouth had 10 shots managed 4 on target and 3 went in.

Thats our biggest problem and it's staring us in the face. We quite simply don't score or create enough when we have the ball.

The only teams in the ENTIRE league that have scored fewer goals than Manchester United are (drum roll please) Luton, Burnley and Sheffield United.

The 3 teams in right at the bottom. We are currently on a par with the 3 worst teams in the league when it comes to scoring goals.

We've conceded less than Spurs, Brighton, the same amount as villa but when it comes to scoring goals we are the 4th worst in the entire division. Now why is that? Well when you look at the personnel at our disposal it's hardly surprising is it.

For all the shortcomings of the attacking personnel, they’re better than this and they’re better than 4th best in the division.

Ole managed to squeeze 60 goals out of Greenwood, Martial and Rashford in 2020.

He’s also choosing a lot of players we know are shit over his own signings. It’s very hard to defend the continued inclusion of the likes of The Scottish Player and Dalot when they continuously show they aren’t good enough and we have alternatives.

The bigger problems remain above Ten Hag and this was never an 18 month fix, but that doesn’t absolve him of all responsibility to do more. We should be doing more and that result yesterday is absolutely vile.

Originally Posted by Lodestar

We have become a club living off isolated "good"results. The win against Chelsea and the online reds on YT are going on about top four being secured. Embarrassing.

Amazing how success has been redefined at the club...

Was that meant to say FT?