Watford FC v Manchester United 2pm Official Match thread

Originally Posted by utd99

it is.

Show me any manager in the world who could have turned this shower of shit around in one year and one window. Guardiola didn’t do that with City and he inherited ten times better players than Ole did. Klopp took three years.

Nobody is expecting it to be turned around, but there's a case to be made that we haven't improved. Or at least not enough.

The stats back that up.

Originally Posted by believe

Mourinho managed it

A brief over achievement (his words, not mine) is not a turn around. We were 8th and dropping like a stone when he got tinned.

"A work in Progress."

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

Nobody is expecting it to be turned around, but there's a case to be made that we haven't improved. Or at least not enough.

The stats back that up.

We’re still too reliant on too few players. If the players we have who we know are capable drop to the level of the players who we know aren’t we lose or draw, simple as that.

The performance was poor, no argument, but the two goals came from individual errors from players who don’t do it often. We were nowhere near good enough to overcome that. Lingard missed a one-on-one, no surprise there; McGuire missed a free header from 4 yards out; Rashford banged a close range shot against the keeper. The Watford from a few weeks back would have been a push over, but they’ve clearly had a bounce in effort - they gave Liverpool a game last week at Anfield.

When our game is slightly off and things don’t go our way, we lose. When Liverpool’s game is slightly off and things don’t go their way, they win.

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

For personnel, fair enough, but how can we look so poorly coached?

What type of team is Ole making us when we're not counter attacking?

Why does our whole team looked so shocked and passive in most away games?

We looked poorly prepared and lacklustre. That is more than personnel.

Ole is more old school in his management technique than led to believe. He seems to set up the team and leave them to it. He's never going to micro manage a game like Mourinho or LVG. But I'll agree certain calls aren't great. Away from home Lingard isn't going to be the key to unlocking a team sitting deep. I think that area of the pitch will be addressed this January.

We haven't looked poorly coached when teams struggle to deal with our forward line and I'm not buying the game raising narrative.

We are game raisers against the bigger clubs. That much is obvious now.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/InsistentW...restricted.gif

Originally Posted by Jethro

Ole is more old school in his management technique than led to believe. He seems to set up the team and leave them to it.

Well that's great when you're managing a team of seasoned pros who are used to winning. Not so great when you're overseeing the youngest squad we've ever had who have zero experience.

If he's basing his entire management style off post 1997 Ferguson then we're in for a lot more piss poor results before he gets canned.

Originally Posted by utd99

We’re still too reliant on too few players. If the players we have who we know are capable drop to the level of the players who we know aren’t we lose or draw, simple as that.

The performance was poor, no argument, but the two goals came from individual errors from players who don’t do it often. We were nowhere near good enough to overcome that. Lingard missed a one-on-one, no surprise there; McGuire missed a free header from 4 yards out; Rashford banged a close range shot against the keeper. The Watford from a few weeks back would have been a push over, but they’ve clearly had a bounce in effort - they gave Liverpool a game last week at Anfield.

When our game is slightly off and things don’t go our way, we lose. When Liverpool’s game is slightly off and things don’t go their way, they win.

Don't disagree with any of those observations, but even outside of that, we were generally poor. We weren't playing well before de Gea error. We weren't battering the door down when Maguire missed a header.... and if we're relying on two players who haven't scored a goal for us this season, then something is wrong with the rest of the play.

There are an awful lot of things that aren't Ole's fault, but that doesn't mean nothing is.

Despite a flawed squad, I would expect us to look better coached, better prepared for teams, making better changes and adjustments and I would expect this squad of players to be higher than 8th.

All the other managers managed at least that and the last one who even flirted with 8th was sacked because of it.

I like Ole. I like the idea of what he's trying to do and there isn't a person associated with the club who wouldn't love him to realise what he's trying to do.

Because of all of that and the lack of transfer windows, he will rightly get more time, but there is only so bad the present will be allowed to get, and his tenure and work in 12 months shouldn't be immune from scrutiny.

As someone said, any car crash can be allowed if it's under the guise of a work in progress. I'm sure Unai Emery thought the same.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Well that's great when you're managing a team of seasoned pros who are used to winning. Not so great when you're overseeing the youngest squad we've ever had who have zero experience.

If he's basing his entire management style off post 1997 Ferguson then we're in for a lot more piss poor results before he gets canned.

I don't disagree. But you can probably count on one hand the amount of natural born leaders in the league. We have zero and not even close to an emerging one. But that's due to years of piss poor management from top to bottom.

The team is filled with fragile egos and manchildren

Originally Posted by Jethro

Ole is more old school in his management technique than led to believe. He seems to set up the team and leave them to it. He's never going to micro manage a game like Mourinho or LVG. But I'll agree certain calls aren't great. Away from home Lingard isn't going to be the key to unlocking a team sitting deep. I think that area of the pitch will be addressed this January.

We haven't looked poorly coached when teams struggle to deal with our forward line and I'm not buying the game raising narrative.

Whatever his style, the proof is always going to be on the pitch and they don't look good.

The majority of the time, we don't play well

We rarely start well. We rarely play well 'organically'. We seem to need a moment to get us going.

We played our best stuff today in the last five minutes.

We are reactive.

This says to me that we're not well coached.

Which game raising narrative? Opposition or us?

Originally Posted by Jethro

I don't disagree. But you can probably count on one hand the amount of natural born leaders in the league. We have zero and not even close to an emerging one. But that's due to years of piss poor management from top to bottom.

The team is filled with fragile egos and manchildren

It is. And i agree.

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

Don't disagree with any of those observations, but even outside of that, we were generally poor. We weren't playing well before de Gea error. We weren't battering the door down when Maguire missed a header.... and if we're relying on two players who haven't scored a goal for us this season, then something is wrong with the rest of the play.

There are an awful lot of things that aren't Ole's fault, but that doesn't mean nothing is.

Despite a flawed squad, I would expect us to look better coached, better prepared for teams, making better changes and adjustments and I would expect this squad of players to be higher than 8th.

All the other managers managed at least that and the last one who even flirted with 8th was sacked because of it.

I like Ole. I like the idea of what he's trying to do and there isn't a person associated with the club who wouldn't love him to realise what he's trying to do.

Because of all of that and the lack of transfer windows, he will rightly get more time, but there is only so bad the present will be allowed to get, and his tenure and work in 12 months shouldn't be immune from scrutiny.

As someone said, any car crash can be allowed if it's under the guise of a work in progress. I'm sure Unai Emery thought the same.

Absolutely he should be open for criticism. He’ll make mistakes just like the players will, but he should be given a reasonable chance to correct them, just like the players. The problem I have is with players who have been given a chance to improve and haven’t. Why the £#%&! are they still in the team?

Lingard cannot raise his game to a Rashford at his best, that’s clear. When Rashford’s game falls to Lingard’s level, we lose. We simply cannot overcome off days to Rashford, James, The Scottish Player and De Gea. I’d add Martial to that list, but his off days are at least as common as his good ones.

Has he gone yet

Originally Posted by puressence

Has he gone yet

Who? The list is pretty lengthy.

Originally Posted by Jethro

I don't disagree. But you can probably count on one hand the amount of natural born leaders in the league. We have zero and not even close to an emerging one. But that's due to years of piss poor management from top to bottom.

The team is filled with fragile egos and manchildren

i thought you were talking about the forum for a minute.

Two shit games, two great games, two shit games...It’s who we are right now unfortunately.

At least we’re due...

We have the same issues that have been going for years.

Poor midfield. Poor attack. Defensively all over the place.

We lack the pure basics of pass and move. Our supposed best player (Pogba) takes one too many touches which kill a move. We have Rashford on the left , who whilst improved is incapable of using his left peg. A centre forward who is a lazy @#%&!, whose first instinct after losing the ball is to stop
...also his first instinct after everything else. A right sided player who has made an admirable step up from the championship, but is nowhere near the level yet of a united forward..

I cannae be £#%&!ed going through the rest of the side.

Shite !

Originally Posted by utd99

Two shit games, two great games, two shit games...It’s who we are right now unfortunately.

At least we’re due...

No mate. We've been £#%&!ing absolutely shocking since march bar 3-4 games.

If we don't take 6 points from Newcastle and Burnley then sorry, Solskjaer should pack up and go back to Norway.

It's been 9 months of absolutely woeful football.

Originally Posted by believe

Mourinho managed it

yes, but with a team that reached the champs league final.

not looking so good today.

you didn't mean....


ole doesn't know what he's doing. 4-2-3-1 with lingard as the creative link (being generous).... how many times does he need to see it to know it's shit?

can't blame him for de gea or the pen, but that midfield is 100% his £#%&!ing fault, as is "the way we attack".