Mason Mount

Originally Posted by ErikvanHaaksbergen

I'm confused .. do you think Eriksen provides more of a midfield engine & protection than Mount? Because other than Eriksen for Mount that is and has been (rightly or wrongly) ETH's go-to front 6 almost regardless of level of opposition.

One of the problems with ETHs current set up is that it's left casemiro over exposed. I would be prioritising a high-end McFred replacement which mount is not

Originally Posted by pedr0

One of the problems with ETHs current set up is that it's left casemiro over exposed. I would be prioritising a high-end McFred replacement which mount is not

He is a McFred replacement because McFred aren’t suited to he a deep lying midfielder.

We’ve got a major issue in and out of possession IMO. In possession, we’re not careful enough with the ball and our decision making is terrible. Mount is a smart player and incisive with his passing. Out of possession, we’re fundamentally too easy to stride through. If it’s Eriksen and Cas, Eriksen doesn’t have the legs. Mount might not offer outright defensive security, but he presses well, like Fred, but with better quality on the ball. In the way Fred is currently a shit means-to-an-end player (which is why he’ll start tomorrow), Mount would do everthing Fred does but with better quality on the ball.

Mount is one of those I wouldn’t choose, but I get it.

We still need someone with more physical presence and athleticism in there. Rice, Rabiot and the like.

Can't see us spending £50m (or whatever) on Mount and then £75-90m on Rice. Rabiot would make more sense being on a free. Mount playing every other game and when Bruno needs a rest.

the type of player we most need is a palhinha, rice, caicedo (if any of them were "good enough"). we have mounts coming out of our arse. mount might be an upgrade on fred, although fred's highlights reel would make mount's look like mediocre shit, but our problem isn't that fred isn't good enough; it's that he's the wrong type of player. he's not a veron. he's one pass against boro.

Originally Posted by windy waffles

Can't see us spending £50m (or whatever) on Mount and then £75-90m on Rice. Rabiot would make more sense being on a free. Mount playing every other game and when Bruno needs a rest.

Mount will be playing alongside Bruno in a 325 formation.

Comments here are interesting, because they either suggest a partial divergence from style of how ETH wanted to set up this season when everyone was fit (e.g. the midfield 3 of Cas, Eriksen, Bruno .. regardless of whether that was perceived good/bad idea, w/ Eriksen/Bruno historically AMs), to complete change of approach (3-5-2 formation). We had a few occasions where Bruno was shoved out of the centre, but he was worse there & typically enforced by injury/suspension.

The club are unlikely to spend £75-100 million on a deep-lying partner for Cas because when has ETH shown a preference for that on the occasions that Bruno/Eriksen/+ a CF were actually fit? Nor did Cas play that way at Real Madrid, where it was also a more attack minded 2 of Modric + Kroos in front of him who could also play keep-ball.

Also expect that Rabiot comes in on a free, w/ Fred likely leaving for a nominal fee. In which case Cas/Bruno/Mount become the first choice 3, w/ flexibility for Rabiot to intervene in difficult away games (possibly).

Originally Posted by pedr0

One of the problems with ETHs current set up is that it's left casemiro over exposed. I would be prioritising a high-end McFred replacement which mount is not

The team is seriously not good enough though.

People were harping on about ole playing. Two DMs at home. ETH likes to overload the opposition back line with players and leave a player isolated.

It also doesn’t help when casemiros partner isn’t exactly setting the world on fire. Be it Eriksen Fred or The Scottish Player.

If Bruno wasn’t the only reliable one who creates then maybe Casemiro wouldn’t be over exposed, maybe he wouldn’t have to push so many people forward to create something in the final third. If I’m honest , much of it comes from his tactics . If they get it right it works wonders. Personally I rather he not play with two DMs both helping each other out. He just needs a better player next to him

His Ajax team was brilliant with it scoring goals for fun. Rice would be perfect for Casemiro, like you said mount would not.

Would be disappointed if mount does arrive but hopefully he proves me wrong and shows to be a quality player if he does come.

Need a much, much better goalkeeper if he wants to fully go for such an attack heavy line up, imo.

Mount will be a much more dynamic and athletic version of Eriksen, I’m coming round to the idea tbh. Usually when that happens we end up not signing them. Rabiot would be a good option to have too.

I would still like another more defensive option for the inevitable times Casemiro is missing or when we’re being overrun and need to shore it up. Chucking McT and Fred on never really solves or improves the situation, any situation

Originally Posted by dunk

Need a much, much better goalkeeper if he wants to fully go for such an attack heavy line up, imo.

Mount will be a much more dynamic and athletic version of Eriksen, I’m coming round to the idea tbh. Usually when that happens we end up not signing them. Rabiot would be a good option to have too.

I would still like another more defensive option for the inevitable times Casemiro is missing or when we’re being overrun and need to shore it up. Chucking McT and Fred on never really solves or improves the situation, any situation

There are probably around 6 positions that need improvement .

CF, CM, CB , RB , cover CF , GK

Is order of priority . Ideally we atleast get the first three in this window . If martial leaves and weggy obviously leaving. We still need depth in attack, even if it’s another loan or signing someone on a free before we go after that GK. It does need addressing but it’s quite low down on the list.( unless they can get a decent keeper for a good price)

Originally Posted by ErikvanHaaksbergen

Comments here are interesting,

are they, though?

we just need someone who can cover and tackle, so cass doesn't have to do it all. eriksen and bruno leave him too much to do. and not because bruno doesn't spend time in and around our box.

if you had to choose between rice and mount, you wouldn't be choosing mount. if we get mount, fine. if we prioritise mount and don't get someone stronger defensively, not fine.

you can say what you like about 10h's preferences, but he has consistently picked an unbalanced midfield. I preferred the set-up against villa (despite not having shaw at lb). the idea that cass, eriksen and sabi isn't an offensively potent combo, as well as being stronger without the ball, is fanciful. 10h needs to wake the £#%&! up.

Originally Posted by jem

we just need someone who can cover and tackle, so cass doesn't have to do it all. eriksen and bruno leave him too much to do. and not because bruno doesn't spend time in and around our box.

if you had to choose between rice and mount, you wouldn't be choosing mount. if we get mount, fine. if we prioritise mount and don't get someone stronger defensively, not fine.

you can say what you like about 10h's preferences, but he has consistently picked an unbalanced midfield. I preferred the set-up against villa (despite not having shaw at lb). the idea that cass, eriksen and sabi isn't an offensively potent combo, as well as being stronger without the ball, is fanciful. 10h needs to wake the £#%&! up.

But now we're moving from the reality of things to projection of desire ("ETH has consistently picked an unbalanced midfield .. he needs to wake the £#%&! up."). ETH hasn't shown a tendency here or elsewhere to want to put 2 midfielders in whose role is to "cover + tackle" unless injuries/suspensions forced his hand .. so why do we think he will suddenly change tact? The two offensively minded midfielders who have an engine to run & harry in front of a midfield anchor seems more his remit. He has a way of playing. That way is probably why we conceded 18 goals at Spurs/Arsenal/City/Liverpool, but that's just the way it is. Do we think he will fundamentally change his style at this point, or just personnel?

The team scored 30 goals less than Arsenal. We had the worst goals scored of any top 4 side from the past 16 years. A handful more scored than a side that was relegated. Absent of totally ripping up the way the team plays, we do not need someone who "can cover and tackle": we need someone who can create, and also pitch in with goals.

While the style of play got found out hugely away from home, on the balance of a 38 game season we had much bigger issues scoring than conceding.

Mount is better than a lot of our current midfielders. Sell them, buy him.

Originally Posted by suedeshoes

Mount is better than a lot of our current midfielders. Sell them, buy him.

He’s also English and young, 2 things we need.

Haggers must want to turn him into a bustling all-action central midfielder.

His call.

Originally Posted by ErikvanHaaksbergen

But now we're moving from the reality of things to projection of desire

this seems to be so obviously the point of what I said that it doesn't require explanation.

Originally Posted by jem

this seems to be so obviously the point of what I said that it doesn't require explanation.

Good - glad we're on the same page. So what you essentially want is a manager with a different way of playing, or for this manager to abandon the way he plays. Understood. We will see what happens.

I still can't quite reconcile where he'd play him in a first XI unless he's rotating Bruno. & that's a really expensive & dramatically worse version by every measure.

Mount has & always will be a player suited to the final third of the pitch, but he predominantly likes to play short passes & is a weakling. Hardly a Bernardo Silva type of silky player that is going to do the hard running and then move the ball & create. He's not displacing Bruno, he's not playing alongside him in a formation I can fathom. He's not suited to replacing Eriksen without exposing Casemiro even more, who clearly needs a partner that allows him to get box to box - another Casemiro would be perfect. Play the pivot.

Fred is shit but the pair of them have similar passing stats, approx. 80% success over a season - frankly not an upgrade if you can't better that @#%&!s erratic bomb scare of an approach.

Unless the Qatar takeover is secretly done & we have £300m+ or whatever to spend I simply don't know why we'd consider spending this much on a player that doesn't affect the game all that much. It's a lot to outlay for being good at pressing IMO.

Spend £50m on a world class right back, or keeper, or partner for Casemiro or add £50m to Kane's fee - all are way more important than this.

i see reports of chelsea wanting 80 million. Are they on £#%&!ing drugs?

Originally Posted by Sparky***

i see reports of chelsea wanting 80 million. Are they on £#%&!ing drugs?

Desperate scramble to claw back some cash, the Boehly factor of thinking they'd always be in the CL

I'd quite like to do a Maguire / Mount swap if I'm honest. Chelsea would retain their English / homegrown quota then.

Originally Posted by ErikvanHaaksbergen

Good - glad we're on the same page. So what you essentially want is a manager with a different way of playing, or for this manager to abandon the way he plays. Understood. We will see what happens.

yes and no. I want whoever plays next to cass (or ahead of him, in your progressive dutch rotating triangle) to be mobile, tough and a ball winner... as well as being a ball-retaining visionary. but I clearly want 10h to start with a more solid midfield and have said it all season.

obvs, the gung-ho approach would work better if we had better players in the advanced positions, too. players who can take on a man as well as look for the retain/recyle option. someone who can cross and someone who knows how to get on the end of a cross. that kind of thing.