ETH - another year?

Originally Posted by larry

i agree / hope that jim won't make a decision based on one game but i'm hoping the guardian exclusive was fake news
if he's already made his mind up to sack 10h then it's not a 'smart money' decision, it's a terrible decision which will isolate the most important players in our squad and mean another start from scratch rebuild (how many is it now?)

It’s a ‘damned if you do, damned if you don’t thing’. After Palace I just wanted to punish everyone, sack the lot of them; after yesterday you want to reward them with another chance. It’s just the nature of football I suppose.

This season has been a calamity, but there’s absolutely no question they’ve downed tools.

guardian already getting nervous about the fact their "breaking news" might turn out to be %@#$&!s

According to reports, Ten Hag may be about to get the sack. This could well be his final act as United manager. Which of course raises a couple of related but also contradictory questions.

The first: how can you possibly end it like this? For this was not just a great United victory but a great United performance, perhaps even – given its stirring sense of occasion and sheer surprise value – one of the great United performances. It had flair and verve and pace and resolve, a performance that felt like the kind of football a club like United should be aspiring to in 2024.

"according to reports": yes your report
"may": you £#%&!ing broke the news you @#%&!s. and there was no "may" about it:

Manchester United have decided to sack Erik ten Hag after the FA Cup final against Manchester City.

The ruthless decision to change manager will be the most significant move made by Sir Jim Ratcliffe and his allies since Ineos agreed to take a minority stake in the club last December and assumed control of football operations.

I also think Ratcliffe is smart enough to take the temperature of the fans. He’s not spent this much money to become Glazer mk 2.

Originally Posted by BigRonManager

It’s a ‘damned if you do, damned if you don’t thing’. After Palace I just wanted to punish everyone, sack the lot of them; after yesterday you want to reward them with another chance. It’s just the nature of football I suppose.

This season has been a calamity, but there’s absolutely no question they’ve downed tools.

you've summed up the difference in mentality there between the in-ers and out-ers
the in-ers have remained for the most part consistent because they believe in 10h
the out-ers on other hand have flipped game to game (60% voting out before the cup final (may poll), 10% since (this poll))

Originally Posted by larry

you've summed up the difference in mentality there between the in-ers and out-ers
the in-ers have remained for the most part consistent because they believe in 10h
the out-ers on other hand have flipped game to game (60% voting out before the cup final (may poll), 10% since (this poll))

Can’t deny it. I’m flip-flopping like a mother£#%&!er tbh. Head says no, heart says yes. Gun to my head, I say one more year, but I suspect it’s a mistake.

Originally Posted by larry

you've summed up the difference in mentality there between the in-ers and out-ers
the in-ers have remained for the most part consistent because they believe in 10h
the out-ers on other hand have flipped game to game (60% voting out before the cup final (may poll), 10% since (this poll))

It’s not complicated pal. There are clear grounds to sack him as if 5pm yesterday, clear grounds to keep him.

As a genuine day one ‘IN’er, I welcome those who are now fully Team Erik.

Out still, best time for it as well. He gets to go with his head held high and with a feeling of being hard done by.

But he'd be conveniently forgetting that the Premier League and Champions league were utter failures. Hard to see too far past that, even with yesterday. He's got a year left on his contract, so it's not a case of give him another year, it'll be a case of give him a new contract if he's going to stay. I wonder how many would flip flop back to ETH out if we start slow again next season? Except at that point he'd have a new contract, another summer of his signings, and we'll have a smaller pool of potential managerial options to replace him with.

If winning the FA Cup against a stronger City side was a requirement to be manager then we might as well put Roberto Martinez the top of our manager shortlist.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

Think it's going to be Southgate, and it was sorted weeks ago, maybe months.

Started out as a bit of a wum but I've talked myself into it a bit now, think it'd be a good appointment if it does end up being Southgate.

you want southgate
opinion invalid

Originally Posted by Patty_b

Out still, best time for it as well. He gets to go with his head held high and with a feeling of being hard done by.

But he'd be conveniently forgetting that the Premier League and Champions league were utter failures. Hard to see too far past that, even with yesterday. He's got a year left on his contract, so it's not a case of give him another year, it'll be a case of give him a new contract if he's going to stay. I wonder how many would flip flop back to ETH out if we start slow again next season? Except at that point he'd have a new contract, another summer of his signings, and we'll have a smaller pool of potential managerial options to replace him with.

If winning the FA Cup against a stronger City side was a requirement to be manager then we might as well put Roberto Martinez the top of our manager shortlist.

Why? The man has a contract. That contract has one year left to run. We don’t actually need to do anything. Why not just get the new people in place and plan to evaluate whether to extend when we determine whether yesterday was a turning point or not. There’s no universal law that says every manager needs 2+ years left in order to do their job.

This notion of ‘turning points’ is a tiring one tbh, especially for us, but yesterday could genuinely be one. Maybe we need to find out.

This is a huge decision for the club and shouldn't be based on one game but a calm thoughtful analysis of the whole 2 years.

Are we going in the right direction?
What are the potential issues about replacing and not replacing?
Is there anyone better placed and available?

Yesterday demonstrated how good a coach ETH can be...just like City at home last year.

He hasn't been daunted by the challenges he has faced and has coped in an extremely hostile and difficult environment.

Seems made of strong stuff. Handles the press well.

Originally Posted by NedKelly

As a genuine day one ‘IN’er, I welcome those who are now fully Team Erik.

Seconded.

It takes a big man to admit that you got it hopelessly wrong, to put your pride and dignity to one side, and come crawling on your hands and knees to the very people you've spent months telling that they're wrong. Fair play to them and I don't think they should be reminded of it either.

Originally Posted by BigRonManager

Why? The man has a contract. That contract has one year left to run. We don’t actually need to do anything. Why not just get the new people in place and plan to evaluate whether to extend when we determine whether yesterday was a turning point or not. There’s no universal law that says every manager needs 2+ years left in order to do their job.

This notion of ‘turning points’ is a tiring one tbh, especially for us, but yesterday could genuinely be one. Maybe we need to find out.

Because if they don't offer him a new contract, then the clubs essentially saying that they're still not sure he's the right man for the job.

It'd stink of the club still not knowing what they're actually doing and are playing it by ear. It'd also be disrespectful to the man himself, because it wouldn't be fair on him to be told that he's the man for the job, but still have no assurances over his future beyond next season. I don't think he should be manager next season, but if he is then I'd hope they give him a new contract. Any decision with the manager has to be made with confidence. Keeping him on but not offering him a new contract isn't a decision made with confidence.

At the start of every season, it is possible to win 3 trophies, 4 if you’ve previously qualified for European competition. In each of his first 2 seasons, ETH has won 1 trophy. Maybe for a club who wins league championships and European cups every year that can be considered failure and worth of the sack, but for Manchester United, where we are now after the past decade of poor ownership and mismanagement, it’s a success. End of story.

If what defines us as a successful club is finishing in the top four, as defined arsenal for years and, let’s be honest, it was purely for financial rather than football reasons, then it’s not a success I crave.

The manager has more than earned the right to lead us next season. The real question is, do we deserve him?

I’m glad we won the cup. I’m glad we qualified for the Europa too, as it will enable those young players to learn the European game properly first, away from the champions league.

Was our league campaign successful? No. The champions league? Terrible. Were there reasons? Definitely. At times the football has been absolutely awful, with palace being the low that has me thinking it was time for him to go, because he didn’t seem to want to cover that gaping hole in our midfield, or be capable of playing to any other game plan than that one he’s used all season. But yesterday was a total tactical masterclass.

Haggers has the skills, he just needs more of the right players.

Originally Posted by Finport Red

At the start of every season, it is possible to win 3 trophies, 4 if you’ve previously qualified for European competition. In each of his first 2 seasons, ETH has won 1 trophy. Maybe for a club who wins league championships and European cups every year that can be considered failure and worth of the sack, but for Manchester United, where we are now after the past decade of poor ownership and mismanagement, it’s a success. End of story.

If what defines us as a successful club is finishing in the top four, as defined arsenal for years and, let’s be honest, it was purely for financial rather than football reasons, then it’s not a success I crave.

The manager has more than earned the right to lead us next season. The real question is, do we deserve him?

I’m glad we won the cup. I’m glad we qualified for the Europa too, as it will enable those young players to learn the European game properly first, away from the champions league.

Was our league campaign successful? No. The champions league? Terrible. Were there reasons? Definitely. At times the football has been absolutely awful, with palace being the low that has me thinking it was time for him to go, because he didn’t seem to want to cover that gaping hole in our midfield, or be capable of playing to any other game plan than that one he’s used all season. But yesterday was a total tactical masterclass.

Haggers has the skills, he just needs more of the right players.

Originally Posted by Finport Red

At the start of every season, it is possible to win 3 trophies, 4 if you’ve previously qualified for European competition. In each of his first 2 seasons, ETH has won 1 trophy. Maybe for a club who wins league championships and European cups every year that can be considered failure and worth of the sack, but for Manchester United, where we are now after the past decade of poor ownership and mismanagement, it’s a success. End of story.

If what defines us as a successful club is finishing in the top four, as defined arsenal for years and, let’s be honest, it was purely for financial rather than football reasons, then it’s not a success I crave.

The manager has more than earned the right to lead us next season. The real question is, do we deserve him?

I’m glad we won the cup. I’m glad we qualified for the Europa too, as it will enable those young players to learn the European game properly first, away from the champions league.

Was our league campaign successful? No. The champions league? Terrible. Were there reasons? Definitely. At times the football has been absolutely awful, with palace being the low that has me thinking it was time for him to go, because he didn’t seem to want to cover that gaping hole in our midfield, or be capable of playing to any other game plan than that one he’s used all season. But yesterday was a total tactical masterclass.

Haggers has the skills, he just needs more of the right players.

Sage words. Those who want him out need to go on record with what the next manager should achieve and the timescale. There have been missteps under ETH but there was under Fergie before we entered the golden era. The club needs to sort it's shit out and build a structure that supports the manager.

Sack him at your peril.

Would you take this season again next season? 8th in the league, 13 defeats, dumped out of Europe stage 1 , neggy GD but an FA Cup win against City? Probably not. Heart right now says let him have his 3rd series but of course if it’s not going the right way then INEOS are gonna see it as time wasted…

Coin flip innit. I think he’ll carry on tbh

Head says no, heart says yes. Either way i'll love him forever now

I can respect any and all stances on ETH*

it's a big oversimplification to say yesterday was just because he had varane and Martinez available. it also ignores the fact that varane was on the bench for a lot of the season...

the main difference yesterday was that ETH set us up with a clear game plan that the players bought into.

from the outside looking in, it's almost as though ETH has been 'lazy' this season. his tactical approach has been very basic and very naive.

if he stays, hopefully he's learned a lot from this season about what works and what doesn't. and hopefully we get a lot less injuries.

*except magic cantona who changes his mind more often than he changes his underpants, and then relentlessly attacks anyone with a different view to him, without any sense of irony.

Originally Posted by Gypsum Fantastic

Would you take this season again next season? 8th in the league, 13 defeats, dumped out of Europe stage 1 , neggy GD but an FA Cup win against City? Probably not. Heart right now says let him have his 3rd series but of course if it’s not going the right way then INEOS are gonna see it as time wasted…

Coin flip innit. I think he’ll carry on tbh

exactly right. it's a good post from finport red but if we replicate this season again next year (inc an FA cup win) I think most people would say it was time for ETH to go.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

Because if they don't offer him a new contract, then the clubs essentially saying that they're still not sure he's the right man for the job.

It'd stink of the club still not knowing what they're actually doing and are playing it by ear. It'd also be disrespectful to the man himself, because it wouldn't be fair on him to be told that he's the man for the job, but still have no assurances over his future beyond next season. I don't think he should be manager next season, but if he is then I'd hope they give him a new contract. Any decision with the manager has to be made with confidence. Keeping him on but not offering him a new contract isn't a decision made with confidence.

Or it could just be the honest situation. Of course it would be preferable for the way forward to be clearer, but sometimes it just isn’t. Every manager, everywhere and at all times are being judged on the job they’re doing and auditioning for an extension, so if this situation is unclear then why should we be forced to do something just for appearances sake? We don’t know if ten Hag’s the right man. He could be, but he hadn’t done enough this year to be convinced of that, however there are reasons to be patient and find out for sure. We may be missing a big opportunity to capitalize on yesterday.

The man has a contract - why would we need to commit to either terminating it or extending it when there’s doubt? And any reasonable person, including the man himself, would admit there’s doubt. If you think doubt is enough to bin then I get it, but I think there’s as much chance of us making a much better fist of things next year as not. Why not find out, especially as there’s no obvious candidate to replace him?

I reserve the right to change my mind tomorrow.