Eth in or out? May edition

Originally Posted by redhegemony

If he plays all 3 then if Bruno plays one of the wide players is dropped

yes, correct. in rashford's case, from as great a height as possible.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

Not even arsed about Southgate coming in at this point. Actually think it could be a good move with the caveat that it's a short term deal over a year, maybe two.

out-ers brains are breaking

Originally Posted by redhegemony

If he plays all 3 then if Bruno plays one of the wide players is dropped and there is no width from the full backs- well Dalot is just about ok.

Reguillon is a mystery but presumably he thought Malacia was coming back. Someone £#%&!ed up.

And I bet it wasn't ETH.

Is there anything from the past season and a bit where you would say he could have done a lot of better? Or are we just going to keep arguing hypotheticals?

Originally Posted by larry

out-ers brains are breaking

Jests Christ..... Oh it's Patty...

Originally Posted by Bunker Buster

Jests Christ..... Oh it's Patty...

Probably just repeating what his Mrs told him.

Originally Posted by NedKelly

Probably just repeating what his Mrs told him.

Originally Posted by shenwen

Aside from "it's better than Southgate" does anyone have a more positive reason why he should stay? Saying he's already been here for two seasons and we don't want to change doesn't count. It's daft logic. I'm not overly convinced by the ifs and buts argument either.

You can change as much as you want at the top, it still doesn't make ETH a good enough manager. Personally I wouldn't be crying of he stayed, but feel the club and the players (especially the ones we need to sign) requires a manager with a bit more character and self awareness than ETH.

He's got us to three cup finals in his first two seasons, and put faith in some great young players.

I know, it's not much . I'm not saying he's Arrigo Sacchi. But it's something.

tbf I don't think it's knee jerk at all to want him replacing, there's a strong argument for it. I'm still falling just about on the IN side, for now, because of those positives.

You could accuse me of desperately clinging to small positives. And you would be correct

I also fundamentally disagree that it's silly to talk about potential candidates. It's bizarre to me that people talk as if discussing potential replacements is some irrelevant distraction. The *entire point* of sacking a manager is to get someone better in, not just to punish him for poor performance.

Originally Posted by shenwen

The only reason I would be reluctant to let ETH go is that t is almost guaranteed Rashford (and maybe others) get a clean slate with the new manager.

If a new man comes in, it has to be part of a wider comprehensive clean out or there's a risk we go back to square one. Again.

Agree with that.

Originally Posted by shenwen

And I bet it wasn't ETH.

Is there anything from the past season and a bit where you would say he could have done a lot of better? Or are we just going to keep arguing hypotheticals?

No one knows who decided the transfers but they all look a right mess...from.Mount to Evans and no Centre Forward...but maybe that was out of his hands. Antony looks like a misjudgement but we have had lots of those.

Failing to close out games and giving away shit goals - look at Sunday...but we have had lots of player mistakes. Perhaps the most obvious criticism is that mistakes and lack of effort seems to have limited consequences. Maybe he needs to be tougher at times.

Originally Posted by Zorg

I'm still falling just about on the IN side, for now, because of those positives.

classic zorg.

Originally Posted by redhegemony

No one knows who decided the transfers but they all look a right mess...from.Mount to Evans and no Centre Forward...but maybe that was out of his hands. Antony looks like a misjudgement but we have had lots of those.

Failing to close out games and giving away shit goals - look at Sunday...but we have had lots of player mistakes. Perhaps the most obvious criticism is that mistakes and lack of effort seems to have limited consequences. Maybe he needs to be tougher at times.

So you're attributing Antony to Ten Hag because he's worked with him before I guess? Who else? Hojlund? Martinez? So Ten Hag was involved in these signings but had nothing to do with the shit ones? It's definitely something to consider.

Originally Posted by Bunker Buster

Jests Christ..... Oh it's Patty...

Originally Posted by NedKelly

Probably just repeating what his Mrs told him.

Cute.

But we'd be closer to Villa this season if it was Southgate in charge, we'd also probably look more competitive and organised when we play (although the bar has been set embarrassingly low by ETH). He probably wouldn't have upset the players as much either.

For as bad as an option as people want to believe he is, it's got the point that realistically he'd be a much better option than what we have now.

And let's be honest, we all know if he wasn't Dutch then it would be pretty straight forward for Bunks, and as a result, for Ned as well.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

Cute.

But we'd be closer to Villa this season if it was Southgate in charge, we'd also probably look more competitive and organised when we play (although the bar has been set embarrassingly low by ETH). He probably wouldn't have upset the players as much either..

This is just a guess. There is no basis for saying this at all.

Originally Posted by Zorg

This is just a guess. There is no basis for saying this at all.

Let’s be honest, we all know if bunks didn’t rate Erik then it would be pretty straightforward for Patty’s Mrs, and as a result, for Patty as well.

Yep, I dream of the day Southgate is at the helm not upsetting arsehole players.....

Originally Posted by Zorg

This is just a guess. There is no basis for saying this at all.

yet you're completely happy to argue the counter factual, Southgate would definitely do worse so we should keep ten hag....

Originally Posted by Zorg

This is just a guess. There is no basis for saying this at all.

Almost this entire thread is guessing. You still want him as manager next season, I'd guess that you're guessing it will somehow be better under ETH next season.

But realistically, we would be better off. He's uninspiring as £#%&!, but he has improved the England national team while he's been manager in terms of how they play, the results they get and the atmosphere around the team. Even our players that play under him look better. Whenever someone talks about their time in the England squad, it's always been positive.

He's had to drop players from England, some of them the same players that have been dropped by the club, without it turning into a huge drama and without pissing off the players. And yes, Sancho is an absolute man-child and can £#%&! off. But having a manager that can drop the man-children that seem so common in the game now without upsetting them would be a positive.

It's not like he's coming from a mid-table team and is going to be crushed by the pressure. He's been England manager for 8 years. A job that's had a habit of making some of the best managers look like vegetables. He's managed in World Cups. I don't think the pressure of coming into a Manchester United that's in the state it's in now is going to crush him.

He has a shit name, he has the appearance of an unflattering cartoon character, and I'd guess that if I was in his company for more than a few minutes I'd consider glassing myself to get away. But I'm not going to kid myself and pretend that he wouldn't be able to manage this Manchester United squad to more than 54 points after 36 games with a -4 goal difference.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

Almost this entire thread is guessing.

almost this entire site.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

Cute.

But we'd be closer to Villa this season if it was Southgate in charge

i don't see a world where southgate becomes utd manager and doesn't lose every single game before being sacked, probably after about 6 games
but i'm just guessing

Originally Posted by jem

almost this entire site.

My entire life...

Originally Posted by Patty_b

Almost this entire thread is guessing. You still want him as manager next season, I'd guess that you're guessing it will somehow be better under ETH next season.

But realistically, we would be better off. He's uninspiring as £#%&!, but he has improved the England national team while he's been manager in terms of how they play, the results they get and the atmosphere around the team. Even our players that play under him look better. Whenever someone talks about their time in the England squad, it's always been positive.

He's had to drop players from England, some of them the same players that have been dropped by the club, without it turning into a huge drama and without pissing off the players. And yes, Sancho is an absolute man-child and can £#%&! off. But having a manager that can drop the man-children that seem so common in the game now without upsetting them would be a positive.

It's not like he's coming from a mid-table team and is going to be crushed by the pressure. He's been England manager for 8 years. A job that's had a habit of making some of the best managers look like vegetables. He's managed in World Cups. I don't think the pressure of coming into a Manchester United that's in the state it's in now is going to crush him.

He has a shit name, he has the appearance of an unflattering cartoon character, and I'd guess that if I was in his company for more than a few minutes I'd consider glassing myself to get away. But I'm not going to kid myself and pretend that he wouldn't be able to manage this Manchester United squad to more than 54 points after 36 games with a -4 goal difference.

All irrelevant. We're not 'guessing' about ten Hag because he's already here and Southgate isn't

But you said it like it's guaranteed. If it was that simple they'd already have him in. There are no guarantees, it's all a gamble - keeping ten Hag, sacking him. Surely you know this?

'we'd be closer to Villa this season if it was Southgate in charge' is a statement of fact.

Yes, maybe. Maybe not. Maybe we'd actually be worse. To present it as a fact is just ridiculous.

Originally Posted by pedr0

yet you're completely happy to argue the counter factual, Southgate would definitely do worse so we should keep ten hag....

No, I've said consistently that it's all a gamble. It always is.