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Unread 25-05-2023, 10:11 AM
believe
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whip Hubley


The bottom line is: are you happy that MUFC will forever be associated with an oil state that has all of the issues I listed above (and then some)?


If so, fair enough. I - and many others - are not.
Well considering I’ve lived here for 13 years and probably won’t ever leave, I’d say I’m quite happy with the association I’ll just be happier when United are the most successful side in Europe whoever’s in charge.

Serious question though. Will you continue to support United under a Qatari regime? I know if I was so vehemently against something the way you are about the Qataris there’s not a chance I’d continue to support it: sea world just opened in Abu Dhabi for example and there’s no way I will go
 
Unread 25-05-2023, 10:19 AM
sweetleftfoot
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasilvatwins
Yes. What I’m trying to say is if the Qataris are buying the club for 5 billion , they won’t turn around and go , ok how can we make that 5 billion we have just spent back. They’d be willing to invest and throw money into the club without expecting a hefty financial return because for them it would be about make the team the best in the world , not run it as a business and to use the club to make money for themselves. Of course they’ll be getting other things out of it, but recouping the 5 billion they paid will be not one of them


Even if they do it to sell the club down the line it won’t be the clubs money , some new owner would bid with their own money. They won’t be taking cash out of the club

Regarding the debt, my point was that ratcliffe has been reported to buy the club with loans but then make ineos pay the loans back. That isn’t an issue then? Same with if he makes ineos pay of the United debt slowly and not the clubs own finances then the point of Qataris clearing uniteds debt shouldn’t be a pro in the Qataris column.

Back to the original point that we just need owners that don’t want to take money out of the club , want to make us be the best in the world and have the right people making the right decisions . Ratcliffe or Qataris , either one seems from a distance atleast to be in the same boat.
To be fair to Jim Ratcliffe, I don't think he jails lawyers for life for challenging his latest laws, nor does he arrest and torture the gays.

Its sportswashing for a nation that is morally bankrupt, but you know, Mbappe and a new megastore.
 
Unread 25-05-2023, 11:03 AM
Hyman_Roth
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by believe
Well considering I’ve lived here for 13 years and probably won’t ever leave, I’d say I’m quite happy with the association I’ll just be happier when United are the most successful side in Europe whoever’s in charge.

Serious question though. Will you continue to support United under a Qatari regime? I know if I was so vehemently against something the way you are about the Qataris there’s not a chance I’d continue to support it: sea world just opened in Abu Dhabi for example and there’s no way I will go
I addressed this from my point of view right at the outset. I want what’s best for united but if I don’t get it, it doesn’t mean I’ll stop going. It simply means I’ll end up becoming disillusioned with it all far more quickly.

Qatar will damage united and it will damage football but it won’t happen overnight. I didn’t like the Edwards family and I protested against the glazers but there’s no need for people to create false principles/dividing lines for themselves. Not liking this government isn’t sufficient reason to moving abroad. Etc etc.
 
Unread 25-05-2023, 11:23 AM
Ethers
 
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I’m not sure going to £#%&!ing Sea World Qatar is quite equivalent to supporting the football club that’s probably been one of the few constants in our lives since childhood.
 
Unread 25-05-2023, 11:28 AM
Whip Hubley
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth
I addressed this from my point of view right at the outset. I want what’s best for united but if I don’t get it, it doesn’t mean I’ll stop going. It simply means I’ll end up becoming disillusioned with it all far more quickly.

Qatar will damage united and it will damage football but it won’t happen overnight. I didn’t like the Edwards family and I protested against the glazers but there’s no need for people to create false principles/dividing lines for themselves. Not liking this government isn’t sufficient reason to moving abroad. Etc etc.

Such a weird take.... akin to "if you don't like it £#%&! off and support Chelsea"


As you say, we've had plenty of undesireables own or run united over the years. All have done damage at some point or another. Not sure the most effective form of protest is to stop supporting the club.


That said, plenty did it with the glazers/FCUM. It was a tipping point for many. Nothing to say the Qataris won't be a tipping point for others. But on the other hand, somewhat conversely, it probably will mean a surge in worldwide support if we go down that route.
 
Unread 25-05-2023, 11:33 AM
Bunker Buster
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethers
I’m not sure going to £#%&!ing Sea World Qatar is quite equivalent to supporting the football club that’s probably been one of the few constants in our lives since childhood.
 
Unread 25-05-2023, 11:47 AM
believe
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethers
I’m not sure going to £#%&!ing Sea World Qatar is quite equivalent to supporting the football club that’s probably been one of the few constants in our lives since childhood.
Abu Dhabi

The choice of United vs Edwards or Glazers was purely a financial thing. You chose if you were willing to finance other peoples debt. The choice to give it up wasn’t that important in the grand scheme of things.

Now the choice is completely different. You’re choosing between following a football team or supporting a heinous regime, that is going to ruin football, has a history of human rights abuse and slavery and won’t let you sodomize another man. Now, if you believe all these things you’re choosing to support it and finance it. I’m not sure how anyone with any morality would think football is more important than making a stand against such atrocities.

I personally couldn’t sleep at night.
 
Unread 25-05-2023, 12:16 PM
Hyman_Roth
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by believe
Abu Dhabi

The choice of United vs Edwards or Glazers was purely a financial thing. You chose if you were willing to finance other peoples debt. The choice to give it up wasn’t that important in the grand scheme of things.

Now the choice is completely different. You’re choosing between following a football team or supporting a heinous regime, that is going to ruin football, has a history of human rights abuse and slavery and won’t let you sodomize another man. Now, if you believe all these things you’re choosing to support it and finance it. I’m not sure how anyone with any morality would think football is more important than making a stand against such atrocities.

I personally couldn’t sleep at night.
No you’re not. You’re choosing to support a football club. I don’t like the fact that iPhones are made by kids in Asia but I still have one. The world is full of compromises. I guess I like going to united more than I dislike the regime that owns it. That might change and my main objection to Qatar is that their ownership will speed that transition.

It’s unrealistic to make every decision in your life based on your preferred outcome. But you can still have a preferred outcome.

It’s what I objected to about FCUM. It was you’re either with us and principled or you’re against us and have none. Neither are true positions.
 
Unread 25-05-2023, 12:41 PM
tatty
 
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Football has completely changed with oil money and there is no going back.

In the perfect world (for us) clubs would only be allowed to spend in line with what their revenue would support.

Now the only way to be consistently competitive is to have vast reserves of wealth backing a club.

The reaction to Qatar is way overblown in my view, and certainly condemning the club to mediocrity in order to burnish woke credentials that nobody really cares about is frankly absurd.

Fans of every other team will be over the moon if the Qatari’s walk away from United and that tells you all you need to know.
 
Unread 25-05-2023, 12:44 PM
Patty_b
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tatty
Football has completely changed with oil money and there is no going back.

In the perfect world (for us) clubs would only be allowed to spend in line with what their revenue would support.

Now the only way to be consistently competitive is to have vast reserves of wealth backing a club.

The reaction to Qatar is way overblown in my view, and certainly condemning the club to mediocrity in order to burnish woke credentials that nobody really cares about is frankly absurd.

Fans of every other team will be over the moon if the Qatari’s walk away from United and that tells you all you need to know.
I think your first mistake is believing that everyone is as morally bankrupt as yourself.
 
Unread 25-05-2023, 12:54 PM
silv
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patty_b
I think your first mistake is believing that everyone is as morally bankrupt as yourself.
what brands your phone mate?
 
Unread 25-05-2023, 12:58 PM
tatty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silv
what brands your phone mate?

He talks through 2 tin cans connected by string, drives a Flinstone car and wears a loincloth made from knitted yoghurt.
 
Unread 25-05-2023, 01:01 PM
Patty_b
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silv
what brands your phone mate?
Xiaomi, not sure why that is relevant though?

Or are using that bizarre strawman that people use where they think everyone that has some moral compass that doesn't live in a mud hut and eat berries is a hypocrite?

Not even sure how it would be relevant in this instance anyway

Quote:
Originally Posted by tatty
He talks through 2 tin cans connected by string, drives a Flinstone car and wears a loincloth made from knitted yoghurt.
Case in point.
 
Unread 25-05-2023, 01:07 PM
silv
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patty_b
I think your first mistake is believing that everyone is as morally bankrupt as yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patty_b
Xiaomi, not sure why that is relevant though?

Or are using that bizarre strawman that people use where they think everyone that has some moral compass that doesn't live in a mud hut and eat berries is a hypocrite?

Not even sure how it would be relevant in this instance anyway



Case in point.
you use Chinese phones, yet you're accusing Bellers of being morally bankrupt?
 
Unread 25-05-2023, 01:10 PM
Ethers
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silv
you use Chinese phones, yet you're accusing Bellers of being morally bankrupt?
He didn’t accuse Bellers of being morally bankrupt
 
Unread 25-05-2023, 01:13 PM
Patty_b
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silv
you use Chinese phones, yet you're accusing Bellers of being morally bankrupt?
I was accusing Tatty of being Morally Bankrupt.

As for your opinion on things made in China, I don't think you understand how many things are made in China. Regardless of that, I'm not even sure what equivalence you're trying to make in the first place

Are you suggesting that if I use something made in China then I should be OK with homosexuals being tortured and people being locked up for voicing dissent?

I honestly don't know what point you're trying to make.
 
Unread 25-05-2023, 01:14 PM
wiganste
 
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This £#%&!ing thread
 
Unread 25-05-2023, 01:18 PM
guerreiro
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patty_b
I think your first mistake is believing that everyone is as morally bankrupt as yourself.
Bet you’ve never been to Sea World either snowflake
 
Unread 25-05-2023, 01:18 PM
tatty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patty_b
I was accusing Tatty of being Morally Bankrupt.
.
I wish you wouldn’t use capital letters where they are neither needed or appropriate.

I find it quite offensive.
 
Unread 25-05-2023, 01:21 PM
shenwen
 
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Sea World
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