Ole

Originally Posted by Chester Road

yep, he knows he's finished if we lose them and you just know Mourinho will be up for rubbing our noses right in it

As well he should. We sacked him.

I would tbf.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

What about the coaches though? Do we sack all of them with Ole? After all you said it's clear we're poorly coached no matter who the manager is.

And then do you suddenly expect the shitter members of the team to start performing well because we've changed the manager and coaches?

I didn't say we're poorly coached no matter who the manager is. I suggested coaching is a staff thing, yes. But the senior coach is still responsible for his staff. No matter what happens above, it's still routine in football that the manager chooses most of his staff.

We aren't there day-to-day so we don't know the quality of training. There were rumours in pre-season that players weren't impressed with the level of coaching. Never a good sign albeit you wish they'd shut the £#%&! up. But yeah, I imagine if Ole goes they all will too.

Originally Posted by dunk

That would be fine had we not looked a poorly coached, disorganised mess with a variety of players under 5 different coaches over the last 6 years.

The brief period we weren't all of those things was under the current manager tbh.

We didn't look poorly coached under Van Gaal. Quite the opposite. There was clear structure for the most part. Under Mourinho you knew what he was trying to do most of the time, the tactics were just quite questionable in themselves.

Under Ole I'm still not entirely sure what he wants. Reminds me a bit of Emery at Arsenal. It's all over the place from week to week.

Over coaching is still poor coaching if the players just don’t get it.

Van Gaal’s problem was that the players either didn’t buy into, or didn’t understand, his methods. He either needed smarter players, which is on him because he bought badly, or simpler methods, also on him. When the play is that dreary and unproductive he’s clearly doing something wrong.

Originally Posted by Clownbones

As well he should. We sacked him.

I would tbf.

I thought you were banned.

Originally Posted by utd99

Over coaching is still poor coaching if the players just don’t get it.

Van Gaal’s problem was that the players either didn’t buy into, or didn’t understand, his methods. He either needed smarter players, which is on him because he bought badly, or simpler methods, also on him. When the play is that dreary and unproductive he’s clearly doing something wrong.

I think it's this, although as I say even with Mourinho buying players is a club job these days. They need to help the manager get the right players. Van Gaal's methods aren't really in question. They've worked everywhere he's been and inspired a lot of modern coaching.

Communication perhaps an issue, but overall I think Schneiderlin, Darmian and many of those inherited weren't up to it.

It's why you can have similar sympathy for Ole. That side we are currently putting out has no real business in the top four. But should it be this bad? You could argue that when a United team isn't really good enough to be top four it sucks the confidence out of the club. Perhaps with better backing in the summer Ole is able to develop the personality of the side and squad.

Originally Posted by utd99

Over coaching is still poor coaching if the players just don’t get it.

Van Gaal’s problem was that the players either didn’t buy into, or didn’t understand, his methods. He either needed smarter players, which is on him because he bought badly, or simpler methods, also on him. When the play is that dreary and unproductive he’s clearly doing something wrong.




I thought you were banned.

Just loitering

Originally Posted by Clownbones

Just loitering

Ah ok. Sulking then.

Originally Posted by Clownbones

Just loitering

Choose a £#%&!ing username to use please...

Report in.

Originally Posted by Bunker Buster

Choose a £#%&!ing username to use please...

Report in.

Got a new phone. Whichever login I can remember, that's how you have to take me

Originally Posted by utd99

Ah ok. Sulking then.

Damn right! You seen us play recently?

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I think it's this, although as I say even with Mourinho buying players is a club job these days. They need to help the manager get the right players. Van Gaal's methods aren't really in question. They've worked everywhere he's been and inspired a lot of modern coaching.

Communication perhaps an issue, but overall I think Schneiderlin, Darmian and many of those inherited weren't up to it.

It's why you can have similar sympathy for Ole. That side we are currently putting out has no real business in the top four. But should it be this bad? You could argue that when a United team isn't really good enough to be top four it sucks the confidence out of the club. Perhaps with better backing in the summer Ole is able to develop the personality of the side and squad.

I absolutely do sympathise with him. It must be utterly soul sucking to give out instructions, then watch a calamity of terrible basic technique and horrendous decisions unfold, which you have limited ability to affect.

Good manager vs bad manager, there can be little rhyme nor reason to it. Is Wenger a good manager because he coached the title winning teams and invincibles, or a bad manager because he couldn’t recreate them? The list is almost endless of successful managers who went on to fail either at other clubs or even their own; look at Clough. The only reasonable conclusion is that no success can be universally recreated everywhere and under every circumstance. Even Guardiola has never really coached shit players for long, and when he came even remotely close he finished 4th.

That being said, we should still be doing better than we are now. The funny thing about managing well -not good managers- is that your team over performs compared to it’s composite parts, ala Leicester, but we are under performing, nqat.

Originally Posted by Clownbones

Damn right! You seen us play recently?

Of course. I’m not Riccers.

Originally Posted by utd99

I absolutely do sympathise with him. It must be utterly soul sucking to give out instructions, then watch a calamity of terrible basic technique and horrendous decisions unfold, which you have limited ability to affect.

Good manager vs bad manager, there can be little rhyme nor reason to it. Is Wenger a good manager because he coached the title winning teams and invincibles, or a bad manager because he couldn’t recreate them? The list is almost endless of successful managers who went on to fail either at other clubs or even their own; look at Clough. The only reasonable conclusion is that no success can be universally recreated everywhere and under every circumstance. Even Guardiola has never really coached shit players for long, and when he came even remotely close he finished 4th.

That being said, we should still be doing better than we are now. The funny thing about managing well -not good managers- is that your team over performs compared to it’s composite parts, ala Leicester, but we are under performing, nqat.

Guardiola himself said you can have a great team with a bad manager, but not with bad players. They're the ones out there.

If Ole has this same group, but with Leicester on the badge rather than United, do they do better? I have no doubt the expectations weigh on a player. When you're playing for Manchester United but you know top four is a big ask, it must demoralise everyone. In essence, you have to really believe in something to gain proper confidence.

It must be hard for Ole to make a squad like this feel like Manchester United, and therefore play like it.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

.

It must be hard for Ole to make a squad like this feel like Manchester United, and therefore play like it.

It’s also hard for the players to take someone who has no business managing a top club seriously ...

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Guardiola himself said you can have a great team with a bad manager, but not with bad players. They're the ones out there.

.

How in the £#%&! would he know? The £#%&!ing cushy job taking @#%&!.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

How in the £#%&! would he know? The £#%&!ing cushy job taking @#%&!.

Because he invented passing, has made us all better parents and we should be eternally grateful.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

How in the f*** would he know? The f***ing cushy job taking c***.

Originally Posted by marlo

It’s also hard for the players to take someone who has no business managing a top club seriously ...

The same players who have no business playing for a top club?

The one obvious downside to hiring another manager is that they all get a free pass...again. I think half of them have decided this is the best way to see out their careers at this club.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

How in the £#%&! would he know? The £#%&!ing cushy job taking @#%&!.

Who are these manager who turn down the glamorous jobs to prove they could hack it in the Championship etc?

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Who are these manager who turn down the glamorous jobs to prove they could hack it in the Championship etc?

Bielsa?

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Bielsa?

sages gonna sage....

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Who are these manager who turn down the glamorous jobs to prove they could hack it in the Championship etc?

It’s a well proven fact that English managers are discriminated against for the top jobs.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Bielsa?

Did he turn down Bayern, Barca etc?

Far as I remember his last two jobs were 19 games at Lille and two days at Lazio.