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Unread 12-07-2019, 01:27 AM
S/Side.Red
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Quayd
I was responding to RIC’s post which smacked of double standards set against oft-stated views elsewhere. Like him, I didn’t read the article but I fail to see the difference between people that refuse to stand behind flags they don’t agree with, is it a free speech issue or not?
Ric didn't actually say she had no right to choose whether she had rainbow colours in her shirt number, did he? He just made an assumption that she's probably homophobic. Gotta say I reckon she probably is too. You could ask him if he believes she has the right to that particular stance without reprimand. Maybe you have before, I dunno.

It's surely not as if all political statements or protests should be treated the same regardless of motive of the nature of them?
 
Unread 12-07-2019, 01:36 AM
My Name is Heath
 
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Back in the day this issue would have been clarified by simply investigating who has the bigger jugs. The Devil Dodger or the Todger Dodgers.
 
Unread 12-07-2019, 01:37 AM
Chris Quayd
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
Ric didn't actually say she had no right to choose whether she had rainbow colours in her shirt number, did he? He just made an assumption that she's probably homophobic. Gotta say I reckon she probably is too. You could ask him if he believes she has the right to that particular stance without reprimand. Maybe you have before, I dunno.

It's surely not as if all political statements or protests should be treated the same regardless of motive of the nature of them?
We’re going to get sidetracked into people’s motives, my question was it is a free speech issue or not? Are you saying that depends on the motives?

I don’t know if she’s homophobic, surely there’s a difference between not agreeing with something and being intolerant?
 
Unread 12-07-2019, 04:15 AM
Patty_b
 
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I don't think it matters whether she's homophobic, intolerant or whatever, as long as she doesnt actively go out of her way to discriminate against homosexuals, she can believe what she wants. She's allowed her own opinion, even if it's based on magic sky fairies.

Like Scarface said, she thinks the world is 6000 years old and the Flintstones is partly based on fact, that she doesnt personally agree with two people of the same sex £#%&!ing is the least of anyones concern.

The question for me is, is the Pride Rainbow a political symbol? If it is, then no-one should be 'forced' to wear it. Noone should be forced to wear any political symbols that they don't believe in, even if it makes them look like an intolerant bint.

In this case it sounds like she was dropped from the World Cup Sqaud 'cos she's shit, not for refusing to wear the rainbow. But it sounds like she had to pull out of the game with the rainbow numbers at the time as she had no other choice.
 
Unread 12-07-2019, 04:45 AM
Albert Tatlock
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My Name is Heath
Back in the day this issue would have been clarified by simply investigating who has the bigger jugs. The Devil Dodger or the Todger Dodgers.
I wish rep was back
 
Unread 12-07-2019, 06:14 AM
S/Side.Red
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Quayd
We’re going to get sidetracked into people’s motives, my question was it is a free speech issue or not? Are you saying that depends on the motives?

I don’t know if she’s homophobic, surely there’s a difference between not agreeing with something and being intolerant?
We're not getting sidetracked because the motive was the only thing Riccers addressed, and was strangely torn down for.

These things can go either way due to the sanctimonious indignation that inevitably spreads. But if these idiots who hide behind the bible to justify discriminating against people have a tougher time doing so, I don't have much sympathy tbh. Happy to leave them behind.
 
Unread 12-07-2019, 06:26 AM
Whip Hubley
 
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it'd be cool if everyone was just allowed to have their own views, without imposing them on others and without being told they can't have them.


state.
 
Unread 12-07-2019, 06:36 AM
windy waffles
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whip Hubley
it'd be cool if everyone was just allowed to have their own views, without imposing them on others and without being told they can't have them.


state.
Amen.
 
Unread 12-07-2019, 06:52 AM
S/Side.Red
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whip Hubley
it'd be cool if everyone was just allowed to have their own views, without imposing them on others and without being told they can't have them.


state.
They're just asking her to support anti-discrimination tbf. It's hardly North Korea.
 
Unread 12-07-2019, 07:34 AM
Hands of Scone
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Quayd
We’re going to get sidetracked into people’s motives, my question was it is a free speech issue or not? Are you saying that depends on the motives?

I don’t know if she’s homophobic, surely there’s a difference between not agreeing with something and being intolerant?
Tolerance isn’t enough. Everyone must conform with the new dogma or face the consequences.

It is actually allowed to be ‘homophobic’. Some people, odd bods that they are do not like homosexuals (although mainly religious). You can’t force them to. As long as they don’t actively harm them that’s fine. Let them get on with their lives. Tgere will always be people who disagree. Tolerate them.
 
Unread 12-07-2019, 07:43 AM
Lazlo Panaflex
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

It's surely not as if all political statements or protests should be treated the same regardless of motive of the nature of them?
good question south side red.

On one side, I find the whole; join in or be cancelled culture gross. the conform threshold keeps moving, and tends to be incremental.

On the other side, it's a ideology of inclusion vs an ideology of exclusion.

If you don't want to wear rainbow shoes because you don't want to be told what to do, and it's nothing to do with gays.. I get it. bit stubborn but I get.

If you don't want to wear rainbow shoes because you think homosexuality is immoral and disgusting, and, as said may times, including on here, that it may lead to mainstream open faced noncery,then wtf. Namsayin'?
 
Unread 12-07-2019, 07:48 AM
red red robbo
 
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Quote:
So its ok for Rapinoe to kneel and disrespect the flag and not ok for Hinkle to object to wear the pride shirt. You cant have it both ways.
Not the same thing at all. One is the flag of a nation state that therefore represents everything that state stands for and all its actions, the other is a symbol of respect for your fellow human being who just happens to get their kicks a different way to you.

That said, in normal life, whether or not you respect either should be a personal choice. In the context of a team sport however, it doesn't show much solidarity if the whole team cannot show their respect for each other, especially as some of the team members will be part of the groups this woman presumably thinks will burn in hell for all eternity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapien
She sounds like a mentalist. I'm team gay on this one.
Apart from anything else, the bible wasn't written 2000 years ago.
Also, if she is a you can't pick and chooser, presumably that means she believes everything in the old testament as well, which would make her a pretty nasty person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rubbernecker
How could she tell the middle aged white man that she refused to sell bacon to was a tory ?
Because he's middle aged, a man, white and able to afford bacon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands of Scone
Tolerance isn’t enough. Everyone must conform with the new dogma or face the consequences.

It is actually allowed to be ‘homophobic’. Some people, odd bods that they are do not like homosexuals (although mainly religious). You can’t force them to. As long as they don’t actively harm them that’s fine. Let them get on with their lives. Tgere will always be people who disagree. Tolerate them.
Again, you have to factor the team dynamic into it. If there is a great footballer who hates a particular section of society, and that section is predominately represented on a team, is it possible this might cause problems that are sufficient for the great footballer to be dropped from the team for the greater good?
 
Unread 12-07-2019, 07:57 AM
Whip Hubley
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
They're just asking her to support anti-discrimination tbf. It's hardly North Korea.
Well yeah, it wouldn't be a big deal to most, but why should she be punished because of it?

Sure, many people would find it a bigoted stance/point of view but I reckon there's plenty of views seen as undesirable held by many sportsmen. Should they all be dropped by their national side?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands of Scone
Tolerance isn’t enough. Everyone must conform with the new dogma or face the consequences.

It is actually allowed to be ‘homophobic’. Some people, odd bods that they are do not like homosexuals (although mainly religious). You can’t force them to. As long as they don’t actively harm them that’s fine. Let them get on with their lives. Tgere will always be people who disagree. Tolerate them.

Bingo
 
Unread 12-07-2019, 08:02 AM
S/Side.Red
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands of Scone
Tolerance isn’t enough. Everyone must conform with the new dogma or face the consequences.

It is actually allowed to be ‘homophobic’. Some people, odd bods that they are do not like homosexuals (although mainly religious). You can’t force them to. As long as they don’t actively harm them that’s fine. Let them get on with their lives. Tgere will always be people who disagree. Tolerate them.
What’s actively harming though? Surely any expression of discrimination is harmful to the process of equality? These people are slowing us down. Protecting their right to do so without reprimand isn’t a priority for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazlo Panaflex
good question south side red.

On one side, I find the whole; join in or be cancelled culture gross. the conform threshold keeps moving, and tends to be incremental.

On the other side, it's a ideology of inclusion vs an ideology of exclusion.

If you don't want to wear rainbow shoes because you don't want to be told what to do, and it's nothing to do with gays.. I get it. bit stubborn but I get.

If you don't want to wear rainbow shoes because you think homosexuality is immoral and disgusting, and, as said may times, including on here, that it may lead to mainstream open faced noncery,then wtf. Namsayin'?
Well put

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whip Hubley
Well yeah, it wouldn't be a big deal to most, but why should she be punished because of it?

Sure, many people would find it a bigoted stance/point of view but I reckon there's plenty of views seen as undesirable held by many sportsmen. Should they all be dropped by their national side?
It’s dangerous mixing politics and football anyway. Especially when representing a country of diverse opinions. Also people just tend to fight their own causes. Our England lads have been superb on the racism stuff but a little quieter on the modern slavery and 600-worker death toll in Qatar during World Cup preparations. It’s a dodgy path to tread.
 
Unread 12-07-2019, 08:12 AM
Whip Hubley
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

It’s dangerous mixing politics and football anyway. Especially when representing a country of diverse opinions. Also people just tend to fight their own causes. Our England lads have been superb on the racism stuff but a little quieter on the modern slavery and 600-worker death toll in Qatar during World Cup preparations. It’s a dodgy path to tread.
Totally agree, sport and politics ideally shouldn't mix. Sport should be about absolute inclusivity but it doesn't need to reinforce this through trite acts and 'statements'.

That said, in the case of racism for example, I believe there do need to be sanctions. So where is the line drawn and who draws it?

Would (or should) a footballer, for example, be dropped from the national side because they don't actively support anti-racism?
 
Unread 12-07-2019, 08:16 AM
andyroo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whip Hubley
Would (or should) a footballer, for example, be dropped from the national side because they don't actively support anti-racism?
Remember when Rio Ferdinand was supposed to wear a Kick It Out shirt and refused. Freggle said he'd be punished when he was badgered about it in the press conference, but later said he'd spoken to Rio who convinced him of his reasons. A rare instance of Freggle admitting he was wrong.

More likely these days for a player to be banned for refusing to wear a shirt in support of a racist
 
Unread 12-07-2019, 08:26 AM
Lazlo Panaflex
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapien
She sounds like a mentalist. I'm team gay on this one.
So she's absolutely insane.

Fair enough.
 
Unread 12-07-2019, 08:50 AM
Knockers
 
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Enjoying the debate but you’re all going back and forth about an imaginary issue. It’s only some third party religious nutter suggesting her beliefs got her ‘dropped’. She just didn’t get picked and then they wiped the floor with everyone anyway.

If she was ostracised by some gays for being anti-gay then...what’s the problem?
 
Unread 12-07-2019, 08:57 AM
Lazlo Panaflex
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knockers
Enjoying the debate but you’re all going back and forth about an imaginary issue. It’s only some third party religious nutter suggesting her beliefs got her ‘dropped’. She just didn’t get picked and then they wiped the floor with everyone anyway.

If she was ostracised by some gays for being anti-gay then...what’s the problem?
There is an insinuation that she shouldn't be removed from the team and her beliefs should be respected. base level free speech stuff.

I don't see the problem. She wasn't good enough to get into the team. A team that included many homosexuals who she has apparently expressed moral opposition toward.

I wouldn't want a black man who is fundamentally opposed to white people (or vice versa) representing my country. Same should apply to homophobes.

Your right to believe it in but don't expect to be included.
 
Unread 12-07-2019, 09:12 AM
Patty_b
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazlo Panaflex
There is an insinuation that she shouldn't be removed from the team and her beliefs should be respected. base level free speech stuff.

I don't see the problem. She wasn't good enough to get into the team. A team that included many homosexuals who she has apparently expressed moral opposition toward.

I wouldn't want a black man who is fundamentally opposed to white people (or vice versa) representing my country. Same should apply to homophobes.

Your right to believe it in but don't expect to be included.
Not the same thing though, she has played with the homosexual players with (apparently) no issue whatsoever. It's not a case of 'not wanting to mix with homosexuals'.

From what we know at least, she hasn't discriminated against homosexuality, she just doesn't want to personally promote it. Completely separate issues.
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