Fergie's less than optimistic about a new signing coming in.

Sigh. The reason he doesn't have said composure is precisely because Fergie's been playing him on the left @#%&!ing wing since he bought him.

Originally Posted by Zorg

Sigh. The reason he doesn't have said composure is precisely because Fergie's been playing him on the left @#%&!ing wing since he bought him.

Yeah but its not like there hasnt been plenty of games where he's played centrally.

Originally Posted by Zorg

Sigh. The reason he doesn't have said composure is precisely because Fergie's been playing him on the left @#%&!ing wing since he bought him.

Other way round.

The lack of composure has caused Fergie to play him on the left to make room for a forward who will score (Ruud, Saha, Tevez, Ronaldo even). The other problem is Rooney's insistence on dropping deep. This is why he plays him on the left in a deep position.

If Rooney was the player everyone seems to think he is, in the final third, Fergie couldn't afford to dick around with his position, it wouldn't be worth the risk.

Originally Posted by dunk

Other way round.

The lack of composure has caused Fergie to play him on the left to make room for a forward who will score (Ruud, Saha, Tevez, Ronaldo even). The other problem is Rooney's insistence on dropping deep. This is why he plays him on the left in a deep position.

If Rooney was the player everyone seems to think he is, in the final third, Fergie couldn't afford to dick around with his position, it wouldn't be worth the risk.

Yeah, makes sense tbh. I haven't seen enough of him in the past three years really.

Rooney suffers from the expectations that were placed on him by fans, colleagues, the media, and probably most importantly himself. He was expected to be where Ronaldo is now, indisputably one of the top 2/3 players in the world, and it has not happened and I do not believe that he will ever reach that level.

Not being played in his proper position is often put forward as the excuse, but what really is that role?

His best performance last season was when he played as the lone striker against Arsenal in the Cup. He was sensational in that role, terrorized their whole defence, ran in behind, dropped deep, out sprinted them, out powered them, may have missed a few chances, but it was as good an all round center forward display as you will ever see, leading from the front, inspiring the crowd and his teammates.

A lot of United fans think playing off the main striker is his best role, as the pivot player. For me that exposes his main weakness, a very inconsistent first touch, add to that he is rather one footed, always looks to go right, at times is a bit clumsy on the ball. He has the brain and passing ability though, but he gets frustrated with himself. He is still good in that role, but at the very top level, he can be a little exposed.

His conditioning needs to be looked at to, he looks heavier than he should at this stage of the season, can not help with the injuries. Whatever you say about Ronaldo he gives himself the best opportunity to be as good as he can by being very professional and fit, and has improved himself every year of his career. I am not sure you could say the same about Rooney.


Despite all this I would not swap him for any other player around. He is a leader and the heartbeat of the team, his passion is commendable, even if at times he would be probably be better for being able to step back and use his brain rather than instinct. His tactical flexibility and unselfishness in playing different roles is admirable and a major part of the reason why this Utd team has had such success, players willing and able to put the team first.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Rooney suffers from the expectations that were placed on him by fans, colleagues, the media, and probably most importantly himself. He was expected to be where Ronaldo is now, indisputably one of the top 2/3 players in the world, and it has not happened and I do not believe that he will ever reach that level.

Not being played in his proper position is often put forward as the excuse, but what really is that role?

His best performance last season was when he played as the lone striker against Arsenal in the Cup. He was sensational in that role, terrorized their whole defence, ran in behind, dropped deep, out sprinted them, out powered them, may have missed a few chances, but it was as good an all round center forward display as you will ever see, leading from the front, inspiring the crowd and his teammates.

A lot of United fans think playing off the main striker is his best role, as the pivot player. For me that exposes his main weakness, a very inconsistent first touch, add to that he is rather one footed, always looks to go right, at times is a bit clumsy on the ball. He has the brain and passing ability though, but he gets frustrated with himself. He is still good in that role, but at the very top level, he can be a little exposed.

His conditioning needs to be looked at to, he looks heavier than he should at this stage of the season, can not help with the injuries. Whatever you say about Ronaldo he gives himself the best opportunity to be as good as he can by being very professional and fit, and has improved himself every year of his career. I am not sure you could say the same about Rooney.


Despite all this I would not swap him for any other player around. He is a leader and the heartbeat of the team, his passion is commendable, even if at times he would be probably be better for being able to step back and use his brain rather than instinct. His tactical flexibility and unselfishness in playing different roles is admirable and a major part of the reason why this Utd team has had such success, players willing and able to put the team first.

I second.

Rooney of now reminds me of Giggs after his first three or four years at the top. As you say, many expected him to be top 3 in the world, but it never really happened. He played in different areas (often shunted to the right to allow Lee Sharpe to play on the left). Halted by regular injuries, his progress was stuttering rather than smooth.
He perhaps developed into a different kind of player too than the one we expected him to become. I think Rooney is the same. Perhaps the raw directness, like Giggs, has been compromised somewhat to make him a better all round player.
He is developing, but not quite at the rate we hope or in the way we expected, but he is developing none the less and his worth to the current set up mustn't be underestimated.

Giggs never got to the top 3 status we all thought he would, but his importance has been obvious as has his medal haul. I don't think anyone will complain if Rooney does the same.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Rooney suffers from the expectations that were placed on him by fans, colleagues, the media, and probably most importantly himself. He was expected to be where Ronaldo is now, indisputably one of the top 2/3 players in the world, and it has not happened and I do not believe that he will ever reach that level.

Not being played in his proper position is often put forward as the excuse, but what really is that role?

His best performance last season was when he played as the lone striker against Arsenal in the Cup. He was sensational in that role, terrorized their whole defence, ran in behind, dropped deep, out sprinted them, out powered them, may have missed a few chances, but it was as good an all round center forward display as you will ever see, leading from the front, inspiring the crowd and his teammates.

A lot of United fans think playing off the main striker is his best role, as the pivot player. For me that exposes his main weakness, a very inconsistent first touch, add to that he is rather one footed, always looks to go right, at times is a bit clumsy on the ball. He has the brain and passing ability though, but he gets frustrated with himself. He is still good in that role, but at the very top level, he can be a little exposed.

His conditioning needs to be looked at to, he looks heavier than he should at this stage of the season, can not help with the injuries. Whatever you say about Ronaldo he gives himself the best opportunity to be as good as he can by being very professional and fit, and has improved himself every year of his career. I am not sure you could say the same about Rooney.


Despite all this I would not swap him for any other player around. He is a leader and the heartbeat of the team, his passion is commendable, even if at times he would be probably be better for being able to step back and use his brain rather than instinct. His tactical flexibility and unselfishness in playing different roles is admirable and a major part of the reason why this Utd team has had such success, players willing and able to put the team first.

excellent post. at his best, rooney's gifts are more brutal than subtle. imo he needs to be playing physically close to the opposition defence, not picking the ball up deep. in that role he's an absolute nightmare for the defence, but *tin hat on* he isn't a player who is able to pull the strings at the top level. he's an old-fashioned inside forward, not a no 10, a striker, not a schemer.

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

I second.

Rooney of now reminds me of Giggs after his first three or four years at the top. As you say, many expected him to be top 3 in the world, but it never really happened. He played in different areas (often shunted to the right to allow Lee Sharpe to play on the left). Halted by regular injuries, his progress was stuttering rather than smooth.
He perhaps developed into a different kind of player too than the one we expected him to become. I think Rooney is the same. Perhaps the raw directness, like Giggs, has been compromised somewhat to make him a better all round player.
He is developing, but not quite at the rate we hope or in the way we expected, but he is developing none the less and his worth to the current set up mustn't be underestimated.

Giggs never got to the top 3 status we all thought he would, but his importance has been obvious as has his medal haul. I don't think anyone will complain if Rooney does the same.

It is Because of the changes and development in his game that Giggs is still with us now. If Ferguson had said to Giggs, just stay an out and out dribbler, using your pace and skill as the main weapon he would be long gone, a very hard style to maintain for any length of time. He may have made it into that elite group for 1/2 seasons, been challenging for world honours but the longevity would be decreased.

Fergie is often criticised for deploying Rooney on the LW, people fail to see the whole picture. By increasing his flexibility and overall understanding of the game it is likely he will have a longer period at the top of the game. Rooney can now play that role to a very high standard, it took him a while but it gives him another role to be effective in.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

It is Because of the changes and development in his game that Giggs is still with us now. If Ferguson had said to Giggs, just stay an out and out dribbler, using your pace and skill as the main weapon he would be long gone, a very hard style to maintain for any length of time. He may have made it into that elite group for 1/2 seasons, been challenging for world honours but the longevity would be decreased.

Fergie is often criticised for deploying Rooney on the LW, people fail to see the whole picture. By increasing his flexibility and overall understanding of the game it is likely he will have a longer period at the top of the game. Rooney can now play that role to a very high standard, it took him a while but it gives him another role to be effective in.

Er, yeah. That's, like, what I just said. Jeez, Tib.

Originally Posted by borsuk

excellent post. at his best, rooney's gifts are more brutal than subtle. imo he needs to be playing physically close to the opposition defence, not picking the ball up deep. in that role he's an absolute nightmare for the defence, but *tin hat on* he isn't a player who is able to pull the strings at the top level. he's an old-fashioned inside forward, not a no 10, a striker, not a schemer.

yes, that is almost exactly what I was going to post earlier. the main problem he has in that role is that he is far too easy to wind up, and far too involved with the individuals concerned. given licence to drift all across the front of the team he's at his best imo - Arsenal in Cardiff is a good example. the trouble is, you can't have everyone given licence to roam, and he is not the most effective attacker in the side any more. should Ronaldo be stuck to the wing and Rooney allowed to roam? of course not. is there a way to allow them both to roam? nope, not in a 4-4-2 there isn't, even a tweaked one like ours.

Originally Posted by borsuk

excellent post. at his best, rooney's gifts are more brutal than subtle. imo he needs to be playing physically close to the opposition defence, not picking the ball up deep. in that role he's an absolute nightmare for the defence, but *tin hat on* he isn't a player who is able to pull the strings at the top level. he's an old-fashioned inside forward, not a no 10, a striker, not a schemer.

Exactly, look at the player in England in recent years who have played that role to a world class standard. Cantona, Zola, Bergkamp. Finesse players with exceptional control under pressure, and precision in their game.

England have rarely produced that type of player.

Rooney is just not stylistically suited to that role, he can physically dominate top defenders, rough them up and unsettle them, he thrives in that type of contest, when he knows he has them it spurs him on. He need to use that talent more, be the club more than the rapier.

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

Er, yeah. That's, like, what I just said. Jeez, Tib.

Yeah, reading it back it does seem a rather pointless post

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Exactly, look at the player in England in recent years who have played that role to a world class standard. Cantona, Zola, Bergkamp. Finesse players with exceptional control under pressure, and precision in their game.

three words

ber. ba. tov.

Originally Posted by borsuk

three words

ber. ba. tov.

At. it. tude.

Originally Posted by borsuk

three words

ber. ba. tov.

Would want to see him to it for one of the top teams under the pressure that it brings before placing him in that bracket. Exceptionally talented though, best first touch in the league.

Attitude is the concern with him.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Rooney suffers from the expectations that were placed on him by fans, colleagues, the media, and probably most importantly himself. He was expected to be where Ronaldo is now, indisputably one of the top 2/3 players in the world, and it has not happened and I do not believe that he will ever reach that level.

Not being played in his proper position is often put forward as the excuse, but what really is that role?

His best performance last season was when he played as the lone striker against Arsenal in the Cup. He was sensational in that role, terrorized their whole defence, ran in behind, dropped deep, out sprinted them, out powered them, may have missed a few chances, but it was as good an all round center forward display as you will ever see, leading from the front, inspiring the crowd and his teammates.

A lot of United fans think playing off the main striker is his best role, as the pivot player. For me that exposes his main weakness, a very inconsistent first touch, add to that he is rather one footed, always looks to go right, at times is a bit clumsy on the ball. He has the brain and passing ability though, but he gets frustrated with himself. He is still good in that role, but at the very top level, he can be a little exposed.

His conditioning needs to be looked at to, he looks heavier than he should at this stage of the season, can not help with the injuries. Whatever you say about Ronaldo he gives himself the best opportunity to be as good as he can by being very professional and fit, and has improved himself every year of his career. I am not sure you could say the same about Rooney.


Despite all this I would not swap him for any other player around. He is a leader and the heartbeat of the team, his passion is commendable, even if at times he would be probably be better for being able to step back and use his brain rather than instinct. His tactical flexibility and unselfishness in playing different roles is admirable and a major part of the reason why this Utd team has had such success, players willing and able to put the team first.

This is a fantastic post. It's a subject I've been thinking about a fair bit lately, and I think Tiberian really nails it here.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...ur/7582049.stm

Berbatov seeks Spurs crisis talks
By Sam Lyon

Dimitar Berbatov
Spurs remain defiant over Berbatov, who is desperate to join Man Utd

Dimitar Berbatov's agent is in London for crisis talks as the player attempts to force a move to Manchester United from Tottenham, BBC Sport understands.

Emil Danchev hopes to meet boss Juande Ramos and chairman Daniel Levy in a bid to thrash out the striker's future.

Berbatov was left out of Saturday's loss to Sunderland due to a "lack of focus", while his relationship with his team-mates appears to have broken down.

However, Spurs insist the 28-year-old will not leave for less than £30m.

The London club are threatening to let Berbatov "rot in the reserves", according to reports, rather than sell him for less than they believe he is worth.

That is despite the fact that the situation has clearly unsettled the club, with defeats to Middlesbrough and Sunderland erasing early-season optimism from fans, and reports of a training ground bust-up involving the Bulgarian adding to pressure on the club.

But Tottenham's position has been made more difficult by the fact that no offer is currently on the table for the striker, despite interest from United as well as two Spanish clubs.

At the same time, Spurs' complaint to the Premier League regarding United's conduct in their pursuit of Berbatov is on hold.

Premier League spokesman Dan Johnson confirmed to BBC Sport that the board met 10 days ago to discuss the matter, only to request more information from both clubs. That, as yet, has not been forthcoming.

In the meantime, Spurs are continuing with their efforts to strengthen the squad, with the club adamant that purchases are by no means dependent on Berbatov's exit.

A busy transfer window has seen Tottenham already pay out more than £43m for the likes of David Bentley, Luka Modric, Heurelho Gomes and Giovani dos Santos.

However, the sales of Robbie Keane, Pascal Chimbonda, Younes Kaboul, Steed Malbranque and Paul Robinson, among others, mean they have recouped more than they have spent this summer.

So, while Andrei Arshavin's proposed switch from Zenit St Petersburg looks highly unlikely, Spurs could still bring in new faces before the transfer window shuts on Monday.

Ajax striker Klass Jan Huntelaar, Radamel Falcao of River Plate and Manchester City defender Vedrun Corluka are all thought to be on their list of targets.

Is there no bid on the table because the one(s) we have made have been rejected or have we never actually made one? Or is this article %@#$&!s?