Looks like United are gonna go for Antonio Valencia in the summer.

Originally Posted by koppas

Taibi was unbelievably poor and was ditched. Nani should be too. Double standards etc.

Taibi is an expection to the rule. If we applied Taibi logic to every signing then most wouldn't last 5 minutes.

It's different for Keepers too. The start of Nani's United career certainy wasn't 'unbelievably poor'. In fact, some of the things he did in that early part are the reason I believe he needs more time and more games.

If we'd ditched Nani that early, we probably wouldn't have won the double.

Originally Posted by koppas

Taibi was unbelievably poor and was ditched. Nani should be too. Double standards etc.

Taibi was great in his first game. Should have been given more time. A very good keeper.

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

It's different for Keepers too. The start of Nani's United career certainy wasn't 'unbelievably poor'. In fact, some of the things he did in that early part are the reason I believe he needs more time and more games.

If we'd ditched Nani that early, we probably wouldn't have won the double.

i agree to some extent, fact is though next opportunity he gets he needs to take it with both hands. We haven't games to spare to handhold him back to form. You can do that at mid-table clubs but not at United when we are in 4 trophies.

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

i agree to some extent, fact is though next opportunity he gets he needs to take it with both hands. We haven't games to spare to handhold him back to form. You can do that at mid-table clubs but not at United when we are in 4 trophies.

That's the catch 22 bit, yeah. I still think Fergie has his favourites though. Darren Fletcher hasn't played well for weeks and still gets picked. They seem to find room for him at the expense of others.

He played well enough against Derby to earn a start.

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

That's the catch 22 bit, yeah. I still think Fergie has his favourites though. Darren Fletcher hasn't played well for weeks and still gets picked. They seem to find room for him at the expense of others.

He played well enough against Derby to earn a start.

Fletcher was excellent against Chelsea and it isn't as if he's playing every week?

I dunno if playing well against Derby is enough particularly given how well Park has played in the PL games he's started. As I say, next time Nani gets selected in a big game, perhaps this weekend, he needs to go out and take his place, not rely on hope in his ability eventually coming good to keep his place.

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

Fletcher was excellent against Chelsea and it isn't as if he's playing every week?

I dunno if playing well against Derby is enough particularly given how well Park has played in the PL games he's started. As I say, next time Nani gets selected in a big game, perhaps this weekend, he needs to go out and take his place, not rely on hope in his ability eventually coming good to keep his place.

Ofcourse, I agree, but by the same token, if he plays well then he must start the next game. His injury came at a really bad time for him.

Originally Posted by koppas

Borsuk, if Carlos goes, we get nothing. For what its worth, i think we will end up signing him. He has been fantastic this past month.

we 'get' the money we've budgeted for him (pull any figure you like out of your arse for that one, it's what everyone seems to do). i think he'll stay as well, fwiw.


i get frustrated by the way park is treated at times. cracking player, very creative and very dangerous. gives us a great threat down the right. but because he works hard and isn't afraid to look a bit foolish chasing down lost causes it seems people can't see past his workrate and pigeonhole him as an honest trier without much talent. %@#$&!s, imo. take away all his defensive energy and he'd still be ahead of nani. very talented and effective player, no ifs or buts about it. great acceleration, able to go past people, very intelligent movement and an excellent reader of his teammates' movement. also one of the few players in the side who tries to make really aggressive forward runs past the defensive line. without park we lose a hell of a lot of penetration.

a quality player who doesn't get half the credit he deserves. like fletcher, he's always damned by faint praise: 'good game for him', 'surprised me today' etc. very unfair imo. still, fergie rates him and that's what matters.

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

Ofcourse, I agree, but by the same token, if he plays well then he must start the next game. His injury came at a really bad time for him.

To be honest very few players have that luxury in this current team.

Park and Fletcher were excellent against Chelsea but dropped for the next game.

Originally Posted by borsuk

we 'get' the money we've budgeted for him (pull any figure you like out of your arse for that one, it's what everyone seems to do). i think he'll stay as well, fwiw.


i get frustrated by the way park is treated at times. cracking player, very creative and very dangerous. gives us a great threat down the right. but because he works hard and isn't afraid to look a bit foolish chasing down lost causes it seems people can't see past his workrate and pigeonhole him as an honest trier without much talent. %@#$&!s, imo. take away all his defensive energy and he'd still be ahead of nani. very talented and effective player, no ifs or buts about it. great acceleration, able to go past people, very intelligent movement and an excellent reader of his teammates' movement. also one of the few players in the side who tries to make really aggressive forward runs past the defensive line. without park we lose a hell of a lot of penetration.

a quality player who doesn't get half the credit he deserves. like fletcher, he's always damned by faint praise: 'good game for him', 'surprised me today' etc. very unfair imo. still, fergie rates him and that's what matters.

Re Park: I also think he suffers from these clichéd perceptions because he doesn't score enough goals, goes to pieces when he has a chance and has never struck a football cleanly in his life.

Originally Posted by borsuk

we 'get' the money we've budgeted for him (pull any figure you like out of your arse for that one, it's what everyone seems to do). i think he'll stay as well, fwiw.


i get frustrated by the way park is treated at times. cracking player, very creative and very dangerous. gives us a great threat down the right. but because he works hard and isn't afraid to look a bit foolish chasing down lost causes it seems people can't see past his workrate and pigeonhole him as an honest trier without much talent. %@#$&!s, imo. take away all his defensive energy and he'd still be ahead of nani. very talented and effective player, no ifs or buts about it. great acceleration, able to go past people, very intelligent movement and an excellent reader of his teammates' movement. also one of the few players in the side who tries to make really aggressive forward runs past the defensive line. without park we lose a hell of a lot of penetration.

a quality player who doesn't get half the credit he deserves. like fletcher, he's always damned by faint praise: 'good game for him', 'surprised me today' etc. very unfair imo. still, fergie rates him and that's what matters.

I think Park would be rated a lot more highly by everyone if he could finish.

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

Re Park: I also think he suffers from these clichéd perceptions because he doesn't score enough goals, goes to pieces when he has a chance and has never struck a football cleanly in his life.

He's struck a few very cleanly this season, just straight at the keeper unfortunately.

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

To be honest very few players have that luxury in this current team.

Park and Fletcher were excellent against Chelsea but dropped for the next game.

But Fletcher was poor in the games leading up to Chelsea and was still picked for the biggest game of the season to date. Incidentally, I think he was good against Chelsea, but not excellent. Giggs was excellent and supported by Fletcher. Since then, he has been poor again yet still plays every other game or more (more than Nani) and in a more competitive area of the pitch.

The difference is that Park and Fletcher seem to have the ability to come in and turn it on when necessary. Nani doesn't. In fact, most players don't.

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

The difference is that Park and Fletcher seem to have the ability to come in and turn it on when necessary. Nani doesn't. In fact, most players don't.

Well i'm afraid you aint gonna get many games at United unless you can. Harsh truth that.

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

He's struck a few very cleanly this season, just straight at the keeper unfortunately.

Nah, they may have been on target, but crisp, clean strikes? Never. He always seems to hit things as hard as he can from about 10 yards and they wind up comfortably in the keeper's grasp. He's like me trying to get the ball off the ground when I was about 11.

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

Well i'm afraid you aint gonna get many games at United unless you can. Harsh truth that.

Tevez can't either. Few want him sold.

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

Nah, they may have been on target, but crisp, clean strikes? Never. He always seems to hit things as hard as he can from about 10 yards and they wind up comfortably in the keeper's grasp. He's like me trying to get the ball off the ground when I was about 11.

I can think of 3 or 4 where he's proper smashed 'em only for em to bounce back off the keeper or over the bar. There was one very recently. Again though, Nani is gonna get a chance soon enough, he just needs to take it.

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

Tevez can't either. Few want him sold.

Not quite sure of the point you are making here. i really hope he stays. I also think he is a victim at times of his own workrate, he might be more effective if he slightly tempered it and directed more of his energy in the attcacking part of the game, Rooney I think is in the process of learning this.

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

I can think of 3 or 4 where he's proper smashed 'em only for em to bounce back off the keeper or over the bar. There was one very recently. Again though, Nani is gonna get a chance soon enough, he just needs to take it.

Hhmmm, must've missed them. I honestly think I'd rather a chance fell to any other member of the squad bar Gary Neville and maybe Anderson. That includes O'Shea (who is a surprisingly composed character in front of goal considering he panics everywhere else).

Apart from the finishing and generally dwelling on chances far too long, I agree with Borsuk's sentiments re Park.

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

Not quite sure of the point you are making here. i really hope he stays. I also think he is a victim at times of his own workrate, he might be more effective if he slightly tempered it and directed more of his energy in the attcacking part of the game, Rooney I think is in the process of learning this.

Point is that Tevez suffers, like Nani, from not being able to just turn it on when needed. He looks very poor if he's not first choice. Same as Nani, but gets far more games and is generally a success.