defence for chelsea game?

A bit early but who would go with presuming everyone's fit?

For me neville - evans -- rio/vidic -- evra

For me evans has to play. he has looked very good so far and vidic, rio are just both struggling now. I am still undecided whether it should be rio or vidic. On one hand, you have drogba's strength ( vidic's needed for that ) but then you the pace of drogba and anelka ( which vidic would struggle against ).

VDSers

Fabio-Evvers-Riers/Vidders-Evraers

Vallers
Fletchers
Anders
Giggers

Rooers
Berbers

Subs: Riers/Vidders, Owers, Cazzers, Sheasers, Scholsers

bit early for a team thread for a game before which we have two games innit? Who is this rafabio fella? Did he turn up when whatisname was banned?

evans and rio.

i think i must be the only one who doesn't blame rio for getting beat by the best centre-forward in the world on sunday. he's not in his best form but he's at least coming back from injury and there's every reason to think he'll keep improving. £#%&! knows what's going on with vidic because he's been shit for a while.

evans deserves to play on merit, not just because of the failings of others. said it for a while.

http://www.utdforum.com/forum/showpo...1&postcount=17

http://www.utdforum.com/forum/showpo...8&postcount=25

not the team thread, just discussion on the defence. rio looks to have lost a yard of pace, vidic just panics when some striker with pace is running at him.

Originally Posted by borsuk

evans and rio.

i think i must be the only one who doesn't blame rio for getting beat by the best centre-forward in the world on sunday. he's not in his best form but he's at least coming back from injury and there's every reason to think he'll keep improving. £#%&! knows what's going on with vidic because he's been shit for a while.

evans deserves to play on merit, not just because of the failings of others. said it for a while.

http://www.utdforum.com/forum/showpo...1&postcount=17

http://www.utdforum.com/forum/showpo...8&postcount=25

but rio does look a couple of yards slower than his usual pace. has it lost it for good or just needs a run of games?

Originally Posted by rafabio

but rio does look a couple of yards slower than his usual pace. has it lost it for good or just needs a run of games?

he's been beaten for pace by bellamy and torres, two of the fastest players in the league, and both where they got the jump on him (already moving where rio had a standing start). i think too much is being made of it tbh. sure, he's not at his absolute best, but i don't think it's anything like as bad as it's being made out. vidic, on the other hand, looks all over the place and has for a while.

evans is such an astonishing talent for his age that i think he'd be pushing vidic for a first-team place by the end of season whatever vidic's form. he really has the lot - pace, acceleration, timing of his tackle, strength in the air, temperament, guts - and seemed to add a welcome dose of aggression in the tackle last season as well. he's very young so he's going to slip up from time to time but he'll give us a lot more. and i think the team needs freshening up.

I would definitely start Evans and I would give him a run in the side starting against Blackburn. I think I would give a Rio a rest. Didn't Evans make his debut at Stamford Bridge? He is one of the most impressive players we have had come through for years imo, he plays like an experienced defender, he doesn't get phased by anything and is so calm. At the moment Rio and Vidic look shit scared whenever we play a decent team or we're playing a team with a decent striker.

Originally Posted by rafabio

but rio does look a couple of yards slower than his usual pace. has it lost it for good or just needs a run of games?

lack of training with his back is a big contributory factor i think

he is just not moving as freely as he can, 2 years ago i think he would gave run torres off the ball and eased him out of possession

Originally Posted by borsuk

he's been beaten for pace by bellamy and torres, two of the fastest players in the league, and both where they got the jump on him (already moving where rio had a standing start). i think too much is being made of it tbh. sure, he's not at his absolute best, but i don't think it's anything like as bad as it's being made out. vidic, on the other hand, looks all over the place and has for a while.

evans is such an astonishing talent for his age that i think he'd be pushing vidic for a first-team place by the end of season whatever vidic's form. he really has the lot - pace, acceleration, timing of his tackle, strength in the air, temperament, guts - and seemed to add a welcome dose of aggression in the tackle last season as well. he's very young so he's going to slip up from time to time but he'll give us a lot more. and i think the team needs freshening up.

probably right. But what's concerning me is that rio has probably had 5 games in a stretch under his belt but still doesn't look completely fit.

I think we should take any bids that come in for vidic this jan or summer and get another cheaper replacement like he himself once was. The match at OT against liverpool probably exposed to the whole watching world and media, that vidic looks poor against pacy strikers. I think this probably has affected vidic mentally too however much he argues against it.

He hasn't looked the player he was since that match. there have been no injuries too in between.

barca and madrid look like they will sniffing once again for a defender, so we should cash in.

Originally Posted by Billy Baroo

lack of training with his back is a big contributory factor i think

he is just not moving as freely as he can, 2 years ago i think he would gave run torres off the ball and eased him out of possession

absolutely. in 07-08 which I think has been rio's best season to date, torres was in rio's back pocket entire match. ( anderson and hargreaves surely helped though. scholes and carrick are pretty useless when it comes to tracking back or covering up defences )

Originally Posted by rafabio

probably right. But what's concerning me is that rio has probably had 5 games in a stretch under his belt but still doesn't look completely fit.

I think we should take any bids that come in for vidic this jan or summer and get another cheaper replacement like he himself once was. The match at OT against liverpool probably exposed to the whole watching world and media, that vidic looks poor against pacy strikers. I think this probably has affected vidic mentally too however much he argues against it.

He hasn't looked the player he was since that match. there have been no injuries too in between.

barca and madrid look like they will sniffing once again for a defender, so we should cash in.

Erm, so let me get this straight, you are worried about rio long term but think we should sell Vidic in january and buy "someone cheaper"? What on earth kind of sense does that make? Top class knee jerkery mind.

Originally Posted by rafabio

probably right. But what's concerning me is that rio has probably had 5 games in a stretch under his belt but still doesn't look completely fit.

I think we should take any bids that come in for vidic this jan or summer and get another cheaper replacement like he himself once was. The match at OT against liverpool probably exposed to the whole watching world and media, that vidic looks poor against pacy strikers. I think this probably has affected vidic mentally too however much he argues against it.

He hasn't looked the player he was since that match. there have been no injuries too in between.

barca and madrid look like they will sniffing once again for a defender, so we should cash in.

don't think the first point is true is it?

and the second point is very knee jerk

we should concentrate on getting him right, when he is then he's the best about

Borsuk hits the nail on the head.
Evans is going to be immense for us over the next few seasons.

My defence:

VDS
Brown
Evans
Rio
Evra

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

Erm, so let me get this straight, you are worried about rio long term but think we should sell Vidic in january and buy "someone cheaper"? What on earth kind of sense does that make? Top class knee jerkery mind.

what knee jerkery?

vidic has been poor for almost 4 months looking back at the last season also. That's no blip in form. And I was always of the opinion that vidic looked partly so good because of rio being with him. Vidic will always plays well against strong strikers but will struggle against pacy, tricky strikers.

bring someone young in, give them a couple of years to settle in while rio with evans will be our first team CB pair.

although cathcart, dudgeon ( who ole is a big fan of ), brown aren't bad back up options either.

also remember that up until that scouse game he was the best defender in the country and arguably europe last season

Originally Posted by Billy Baroo

don't think the first point is true is it?

and the second point is very knee jerk

we should concentrate on getting him right, when he is then he's the best about

in my opinion first point is true. I don't think I have seen vidic at his best since that match. if yes, my memory is poor.

Originally Posted by Jez Quigley

Borsuk hits the nail on the head.
Evans is going to be immense for us over the next few seasons.

My defence:

VDS
Brown
Evans
Rio
Evra

Certainly is.

Originally Posted by Billy Baroo

also remember that up until that scouse game he was the best defender in the country and arguably europe last season

totally agreed. which is why I was wondering whether this is to with his mental aspect of the game!!

edit : gray mentioned it. vidic was probably player of the year up until that match. after that he was very poor and not in the running for me.

Originally Posted by rafabio

totally agreed. which is why I was wondering whether this is to with his mental aspect of the game!!

we set a defensive record last year and won the league

before xmas you want to dismantle that unit and sell

that is knee jerk, my friend