Managing United: why so hard?

Originally Posted by redhegemony

This issue goes back beyond Ferguson look at post Busby. Also look at the players who have failed to deliver.

There is something about United that creates pressure and you either rise to it like Busby and Feguson and Eric and Bruce or you wilt like Moyes and Mcguiness and Birtles and Schniderlin et al.

We need to find a manager who thrives on that pressure ..could still be ETH we'll see.

Players and managers two different things. If you think mourinho and van Gaal for example don’t handle pressure you’re talking out of your arse. Very myopic to think United is more pressurised than Madrid or Barcelona .

You’re looking for one reason and it’s not that simple. Plus as already said if you’ve got two giants of the game, widely regarded as two of the best managers in the history of the sport, both in charge for 25yrs each then obviously following such characters could prove difficult.

Not that we should have #@&%!ed it up like we have mind. Also saying no one outside them has enjoyed success is overly harsh and using those two greats as sticks to beat their peers with.

Originally Posted by Gypsum Fantastic

Players and managers two different things. If you think mourinho and van Gaal for example don’t handle pressure you’re talking out of your arse. Very myopic to think United is more pressurised than Madrid or Barcelona .

You’re looking for one reason and it’s not that simple. Plus as already said if you’ve got two giants of the game, widely regarded as two of the best managers in the history of the sport, both in charge for 25yrs each then obviously following such characters could prove difficult.

Not that we should have #@&%!ed it up like we have mind. Also saying no one outside them has enjoyed success is overly harsh and using those two greats as sticks to beat their peers with.

Maybe Van Gaal was a few years too late and mourinhou seems to thrive more of conflict. Don't think either suffered from pressure but weren't suited.

If the club had given Mou and VanGaal more of the players they wanted they would've been more successful. Regardless of the brave face he put on, Pogba and Sanchez weren't signings Mou wanted. VanGaal's requests were totally ignored.

Originally Posted by armchair

Success made us dysfunctional. The club's structure evolved into serving Fergie. You can't replace the guy. We needed someone to come into United the way Clough came in at Leeds. It wouldn't have worked, but that's what should've happened. Van Gaal instead of Moyes and given a remit to rebuild.

Mourinho you mean, he was desperate to come here in 2013 and could have tided us over the inevitable few "difficult" years after SAF's departure.

He would then have got the sack as in all his actual jobs, and a proper "rebuilding" could start - but without us having lost the aura of winners.

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

Mourinho you mean, he was desperate to come here in 2013 and could have tided us over the inevitable few "difficult" years after SAF's departure.

He would then have got the sack as in all his actual jobs, and a proper "rebuilding" could start - but without us having lost the aura of winners.

king louis and a rebuild. the need was immediate. moyes didn't inherit a title-winning team. rather, a team that had won the title. fergie squeezing the last drop out of a declining squad. there is no time mou would have been right for united.

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

We cite patience, but we can’t really afford to give it. We like to think we give manager’s time, but ‘man United shouldn’t be finishing 6th’ and that gets them the sack

We’re guilty of it as a club and as fans. On the one hand, we all know we’re a bit shit, but then we can’t believe it when we get dominated by ‘£#%&!ing Brentford’. A ‘£#%&!ing Brentford’ team that beat us 4-0 last season when we were also pretty shit.

Man United, the name, should not be getting dominated by Brentford. But THIS man United team getting dominated by Brentford isn’t a surprise

We did show patience, hence when we got battered 4-0 by £#%&!ing Brentford in ETH's second game 99% of fans understood it was because of the players. The issue is we are almost two years in and we are getting dominated regularly by utter dogshit. We are not talking about freak results, we are talking about anaemic performances as a default, we haven't seen anything approaching a style of play in over a year.

Patience isn't a blank cheque to excrete out performance after performance that would shame a third tier side. This isn't 1986, the game is utterly rigged in our favour domestically and in Europe. There are maybe three or four clubs in the world who can spend more than we can, it shouldn't take three plus seasons before people have a clue what if any tactics are being deployed.

With a quarter of the season to go we are resigned to not being able to keep pace with Villa and £#%&!ing Spurs, there is simply no excuse. The alternatives are sickening but ETH has utterly taken the piss this season, win the FA Cup or enjoy De Graafschap

Tbf to Arsenal they have stuck with Arteta but then perhaps it isn't the same level of pressure.

Originally Posted by Chris Quayd

We did show patience, hence when we got battered 4-0 by £#%&!ing Brentford in ETH's second game 99% of fans understood it was because of the players. The issue is we are almost two years in and we are getting dominated regularly by utter dogshit. We are not talking about freak results, we are talking about anaemic performances as a default, we haven't seen anything approaching a style of play in over a year.

Patience isn't a blank cheque to excrete out performance after performance that would shame a third tier side. This isn't 1986, the game is utterly rigged in our favour domestically and in Europe. There are maybe three or four clubs in the world who can spend more than we can, it shouldn't take three plus seasons before people have a clue what if any tactics are being deployed.

With a quarter of the season to go we are resigned to not being able to keep pace with Villa and £#%&!ing Spurs, there is simply no excuse. The alternatives are sickening but ETH has utterly taken the piss this season, win the FA Cup or enjoy De Graafschap

All of this.

Can anyone think of a time when we’ve played as badly as this for as long?

I reckon you have to go back to the 80’s.

It’s inexcusable to be dominated so often by teams that are below us in every sense. People I know who have no football allegiances to grind describe us as the worst United team in living memory playing the worst football they’ve ever seen us play.

Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth

All of this.

Can anyone think of a time when we’ve played as badly as this for as long?

I reckon you have to go back to the 80’s.

It’s inexcusable to be dominated so often by teams that are below us in every sense. People I know who have no football allegiances to grind describe us as the worst United team in living memory playing the worst football they’ve ever seen us play.

i remember us being awful under sexton, really really dull, but were we this bad?

Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth

Can anyone think of a time when we’ve played as badly as this for as long?

I reckon you have to go back to the 80’s.

Mid to late 80's. Watching us play Wimbledon, Luton and Notts County and expecting to lose. Mal Donaghy, Ralph Milne, Terry Gibson and all them. Turgid football. The last time a manager was given a long time. Turned out OK in the end.

And when van Gaal and Mourinho were in charge obviously.

Originally Posted by Chris Quayd

We did show patience, hence when we got battered 4-0 by £#%&!ing Brentford in ETH's second game 99% of fans understood it was because of the players. The issue is we are almost two years in and we are getting dominated regularly by utter dogshit. We are not talking about freak results, we are talking about anaemic performances as a default, we haven't seen anything approaching a style of play in over a year.

Patience isn't a blank cheque to excrete out performance after performance that would shame a third tier side. This isn't 1986, the game is utterly rigged in our favour domestically and in Europe. There are maybe three or four clubs in the world who can spend more than we can, it shouldn't take three plus seasons before people have a clue what if any tactics are being deployed.

With a quarter of the season to go we are resigned to not being able to keep pace with Villa and £#%&!ing Spurs, there is simply no excuse. The alternatives are sickening but ETH has utterly taken the piss this season, win the FA Cup or enjoy De Graafschap

When was the last time a manager came out of holland and achieved any kind of remarkable success with European Club? Rijkaard at Barcelona?

Other than that i can't think of any.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

When was the last time a manager came out of holland and achieved any kind of remarkable success with European Club? Rijkaard at Barcelona?

Other than that i can't think of any.

Rinus Michels
King Louis
Dick Advocaat
Guus Hiddink
Leo Beenhakker
Johan Cruyff

Originally Posted by Bunker Buster

Rinus Michels
King Louis
Dick Advocaat
Guus Hiddink
Leo Beenhakker
Johan Cruyff

So yeah, Rijkaard then.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

So yeah, Rijkaard then.

So by your argument Catalonia produces the best managers in the world and we should be looking round the lower leagues of Bages for the next big thing ?

Originally Posted by Bunker Buster

So by your argument Catalonia produces the best managers in the world and we should be looking round the lower leagues of Bages for the next big thing ?

No i was just wondering when the last manager to come out of holland did anything significant.

No need to be so defensive pal.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

No i was just wondering when the last manager to come out of holland did anything significant.

No need to be so defensive pal.

I'm not...

4 more years !!!

Originally Posted by suedeshoes

Mid to late 80's. Watching us play Wimbledon, Luton and Notts County and expecting to lose. Mal Donaghy, Ralph Milne, Terry Gibson and all them. Turgid football. The last time a manager was given a long time. Turned out OK in the end.

And when van Gaal and Mourinho were in charge obviously.

Something we've all done to death a million times. Ferguson was a total one-off, a complete freak who nobody will ever match. Waiting around in the hope it 'turns out OK' is a silly idea. We need more than that.

I'm all for being patient and have said before I'd rather he got another season, but it really doesn't have to be this bad. The players are obviously not buying what ten Hag is doing with them. They look absolutely £#%&!ing clueless. I won't be arsed if he's sacked, although the alternatives are genuinely £#%&!ing horrific.

Although that equaliser yesterday was all on the players - it should be extremely easy for professional footballers to see out a win when they've just scored deep into injury time. Page 1 stuff. I think too many of them are absolute thickos - £#%&!ing morons who switch off and go wandering miles out of position, and look amazed when opposition players go running past them.

moyes was given time at everton. over ten years. he was still moyes at the end of the decade.

Originally Posted by Zorg

Something we've all done to death a million times. Ferguson was a total one-off, a complete freak who nobody will ever match. Waiting around in the hope it 'turns out OK' is a silly idea. We need more than that.

I'm all for being patient and have said before I'd rather he got another season, but it really doesn't have to be this bad. The players are obviously not buying what ten Hag is doing with them. They look absolutely £#%&!ing clueless. I won't be arsed if he's sacked, although the alternatives are genuinely £#%&!ing horrific.

Although that equaliser yesterday was all on the players - it should be extremely easy for professional footballers to see out a win when they've just scored deep into injury time. Page 1 stuff. I think too many of them are absolute thickos - £#%&!ing morons who switch off and go wandering miles out of position, and look amazed when opposition players go running past them.

Flip flops much ?

You were posting and agreeing (thiiis) with other posters that wanted to give him time just the other day ??

He didn't send his players out to walk... The draw v Brentford was fully on his players and one of the most disgusting first halfs of football I've ever watched...

There's so many positives even from this season, just overlooked every time .

Originally Posted by jem

moyes was given time at everton. over ten years. he was still moyes at the end of the decade.

European cup winner Moyes?