Carrick

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon

Indeedy.

I've repeatedly made the point that Carrick plays at the level of the team. As Borsurs pointed out, he's been the best central pairing with Anderson this season. If he was deployed alongside a vintage Robbo you'd think he was a classy midfield passing / intercepting continental type. But because we have, frankly, a shit midfield - Fletcher is limited & been toss this season, Anderson barely fit for a decent run, Scholes older than Mr Burns & only capable of 60mins in a frenetic pace, Gibson utterly shite, Hargreaves dead, & so on & so forth... Carrick has been the mainstay & yet we're still top, in the competitions that matter. It's not despite Carrick, or even because of him, but certainly he plays his part. If we stuck him next to a quality box to box player & had 2 proper wingers, the first choice back 4, do we not think that would be a quite superb side ?

Because it was precisely that that won 3 on the bounce & got to 2 CL finals.

The rest of the side has deteriorated since those days, Carrick's form has as well, but as I said, he plays at the level of the team. Inject some class in again & some stability behind him, & we'll be fine.

excellent post

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon

Indeedy.

I've repeatedly made the point that Carrick plays at the level of the team. As Borsurs pointed out, he's been the best central pairing with Anderson this season. If he was deployed alongside a vintage Robbo you'd think he was a classy midfield passing / intercepting continental type. But because we have, frankly, a shit midfield - Fletcher is limited & been toss this season, Anderson barely fit for a decent run, Scholes older than Mr Burns & only capable of 60mins in a frenetic pace, Gibson utterly shite, Hargreaves dead, & so on & so forth... Carrick has been the mainstay & yet we're still top, in the competitions that matter. It's not despite Carrick, or even because of him, but certainly he plays his part. If we stuck him next to a quality box to box player & had 2 proper wingers, the first choice back 4, do we not think that would be a quite superb side ?

Because it was precisely that that won 3 on the bounce & got to 2 CL finals.

The rest of the side has deteriorated since those days, Carrick's form has as well, but as I said, he plays at the level of the team. Inject some class in again & some stability behind him, & we'll be fine.

You should go into Law.. or sales !! - good post, but incredibly blinkered.

Originally Posted by Part 36 Offer

excellent post

Originally Posted by Fountz

You should go into Law.. or sales !! - good post, but incredibly blinkered.

Seriously though. When did Carrick let us down pre-Rome 2009 ?

He plays well with other good players, his partnership with Scholes those years was the best in the league & especially with the clampdown on aggressive tackling & the overly pissy refs of European football. He had the movement of Ronnie, Rooney & Tevez to play with, vintage Rio & Vidic behind, Evra on fire down the left...

None of that really exists in our side at the moment. A solid back 4, Valencia & Nani on the wings, Rooney & a.n.other up front, & De Rossi alongside him... would you have reservations ? I think he'd look perfectly at home myself. So long as you're not expecting him to lead, to drag us through - that's not Carrick. It's for him to play with the others - I can understand people's frustrations with Carrick, I have them & have also repeatedly chastised the gormless @#%&! when he's minced out of the game... but if we have him in the right circumstance I think he can be integral to the side.

Carrick should get a skinhead imo, I just can't take to someone who has a "normal" haircut.

[SIZE="1"]*this isn't an anti hair rant btw.

Originally Posted by red @rmy

[SIZE="1"]*this isn't an anti hair rant btw.

Originally Posted by carlosartorial

Don't you start mophead, you could do with a new look an all.

Number 2 down t'wood.
You can walk proper moody an that. :suuuuuuuuunshinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnne:

i'll keep saying this even after he's gone, look at what united have won since carrick arrived. look how many of those games he played in:

you can't carry a "shite" player and win all those trophies.

Originally Posted by Gypsum Fantastic

not sure throw's got the legs for it these days

It'd be nice if he turned up and put in a performance on Weds night...

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon

I've repeatedly made the point that Carrick plays at the level of the team.

Yeah, because he's a £#%&!ing passenger in most games.

Most players can look good when the whole team is on blob. When it comes to turning a game round, coming up with something a bit special, be it through sheer will and determination like Keane, or pure technical brilliance like Scholes, he's been constantly found wanting for the last 18 months.

Just not good enough for a United midfielder. You should be changing things yourself at this level, not relying on better players to carry you when things get tough.

Originally Posted by John Blazini

Yeah, because he's a £#%&!ing passenger in most games.

Most players can look good when the whole team is on blob. When it comes to turning a game round, coming up with something a bit special, be it through sheer will and determination like Keane, or pure technical brilliance like Scholes, he's been constantly found wanting for the last 18 months.

Just not good enough for a United midfielder. You should be changing things yourself at this level, not relying on better players to carry you when things get tough.

Agreed. It is a piss poor excuse.

When you play a lot of games with a 2 man midfield, you can't have passsengers and all too often over the past 18 months, he hasn't contributed anywhere near enough.

Originally Posted by John Blazini

Yeah, because he's a £#%&!ing passenger in most games.

Most players can look good when the whole team is on blob. When it comes to turning a game round, coming up with something a bit special, be it through sheer will and determination like Keane, or pure technical brilliance like Scholes, he's been constantly found wanting for the last 18 months.

Just not good enough for a United midfielder. You should be changing things yourself at this level, not relying on better players to carry you when things get tough.

Originally Posted by Coracao

Agreed. It is a piss poor excuse.

When you play a lot of games with a 2 man midfield, you can't have passsengers and all too often over the past 18 months, he hasn't contributed anywhere near enough.

I'm not making excuses, just specifying what we have.

It was clearly good enough for a solid 3 years as well. When you had as many match winners & game changers in the side as we did in that period it's sometimes necessary to marry it all together with a different player. Not to say a Keane, or a Robson, or even a Paul Ince wouldn't have done twice the job. But singling out Carrick these days is akin to saying your car needs new tyres when the engine is @#%&!ed.

i just want the 2008-9 Carrick back. pretty please.

invaluable member of the league leader's first team

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon

I'm not making excuses, just specifying what we have.

It was clearly good enough for a solid 3 years as well. When you had as many match winners & game changers in the side as we did in that period it's sometimes necessary to marry it all together with a different player. Not to say a Keane, or a Robson, or even a Paul Ince wouldn't have done twice the job. But singling out Carrick these days is akin to saying your car needs new tyres when the engine is @#%&!ed.

You did a good "selling job" in post #22..

I suggest you quit whilst you're ahead before we all sit down and study the Carrick small-print !

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon

I'm not making excuses, just specifying what we have.

It was clearly good enough for a solid 3 years as well. When you had as many match winners & game changers in the side as we did in that period it's sometimes necessary to marry it all together with a different player. Not to say a Keane, or a Robson, or even a Paul Ince wouldn't have done twice the job. But singling out Carrick these days is akin to saying your car needs new tyres when the engine is @#%&!ed.

If you can't see that his game has dropped considerably, then there is no hope really.

The midfield is the engine. And Carrick is part of it.

Originally Posted by Fountz

You did a good "selling job" in post #22..

I suggest you quit whilst your ahead before we all sit down and study the Carrick small-print !

Manchester United
Premier League (3): 2006–07, 2007–08, 2008–09
Football League Cup (1): 2009–10
FA Community Shield (3): 2007, 2008, 2010
UEFA Champions League (1): 2007–08
FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2008

As mentioned, you don't carry a shite player to all that silverware. Post #22 acknowledges his shortcomings, his form has fluctuated... mainly down the toilet post Rome '09. I thought it was pretty realistic & avoided all the cliché'd shit about not getting stuck in & so on - he's simply not that player that will drag anything out of the shit. He never was. People seem to want fire & brimstone from him, I'm at a loss as to why they would think he'd morph into some kind of rampaging box to box beat a la Keane now when he's really played the same role for the past decade regardless of who he's played for & on what stage. Be it relegation for West Ham, World Cups for England, or repeated trophy winning campaigns for United... he passes & he intercepts, some weeks he does it far more more authority than others - see Saturdays two halves for prime examples - but in general you get the same old from him.

I'll maintain that if the rest of the side was as good as '06 to '09, he'd play as well as he did then as well. No more, no less.

Originally Posted by Coracao

If you can't see that his game has dropped considerably, then there is no hope really.

The midfield is the engine. And Carrick is part of it.

You seem to have ignored the repeated lines I wrote about his form going to pot since '09, & that if the side plays well, then so does he. He never, ever drove Utd on in that period of success. He wont do it now either. If we had a settled defence, our two best wingers, an in form Rooney, & a proper box to box midfielder next to him, you'd see a better Carrick. Simples. As it is, he's been shit a lot of the time because he playing alongside Gibson, Park & Fletcher, all players that simply wont drive United on to great things & are basically just good squad players.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

invaluable member of the league leader's first team

Invaluable | Define Invaluable at Dictionary.com
beyond calculable or appraisable value; of inestimable worth; priceless: ; dictionary.reference.com/browse/invaluable - Cached - Similar

:shakehead:

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon

Manchester United
Premier League (3): 2006–07, 2007–08, 2008–09
Football League Cup (1): 2009–10
FA Community Shield (3): 2007, 2008, 2010
UEFA Champions League (1): 2007–08
FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2008

As mentioned, you don't carry a shite player to all that silverware. Post #22 acknowledges his shortcomings, his form has fluctuated... mainly down the toilet post Rome '09. I thought it was pretty realistic & avoided all the cliché'd shit about not getting stuck in & so on - he's simply not that player that will drag anything out of the shit. He never was. People seem to want fire & brimstone from him, I'm at a loss as to why they would think he'd morph into some kind of rampaging box to box beat a la Keane now when he's really played the same role for the past decade regardless of who he's played for & on what stage. Be it relegation for West Ham, World Cups for England, or repeated trophy winning campaigns for United... he passes & he intercepts, some weeks he does it far more more authority than others - see Saturdays two halves for prime examples - but in general you get the same old from him.

I'll maintain that if the rest of the side was as good as '06 to '09, he'd play as well as he did then as well. No more, no less.

Who on here has said he was shit between 2006 - 2009.

Your point is a completely moot one. Nobody has said they want him to morph into Keane either.

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon

Manchester United
Premier League (3): 2006–07, 2007–08, 2008–09
Football League Cup (1): 2009–10
FA Community Shield (3): 2007, 2008, 2010
UEFA Champions League (1): 2007–08
FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2008

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon

[SIZE="1"]As mentioned, you don't carry a shite player to all that silverware. Post #22 acknowledges his shortcomings, his form has fluctuated... mainly down the toilet post Rome '09. I thought it was pretty realistic & avoided all the cliché'd shit about not getting stuck in & so on - he's simply not that player that will drag anything out of the shit. He never was. People seem to want fire & brimstone from him, I'm at a loss as to why they would think he'd morph into some kind of rampaging box to box beat a la Keane now when he's really played the same role for the past decade regardless of who he's played for & on what stage. Be it relegation for West Ham, World Cups for England, or repeated trophy winning campaigns for United... he passes & he intercepts, some weeks he does it far more more authority than others - see Saturdays two halves for prime examples - but in general you get the same old from him.

I'll maintain that if the rest of the side was as good as '06 to '09, he'd play as well as he did then as well. No more, no less.

The caveats and small-print