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Unread 07-07-2009, 04:30 PM
Baron
 
Football The midfield & impending lack of creativity

If anyone's desperate or dedicated enough to take notice of all the posts on here a few of us have been banging on about the midfield's lack of goal scoring & creativity for a little while. Names like Diego, Gourcuff & Ribery were touted long before this summer & the departure of the only genuinely creative threat we possesed outside of the strikers & an aging, brilliantly reinvented Ryan Giggs leaves me shitting it a bit at the moment.

So where does that leave us this summer? Scholes was on the wane before this past season. A legend in every sense of the word, and although probably capable of sticking around this season it's impossible, unfair & frankly unlikely we should expect him to produce week in, week out. He's done us proud, and he'll still pull the strings & ping some majestic passes around but realistically I'm thinking we'll see him maybe 15 time in the league including subs appearances & maybe another 5 in all other competitions. His goal scoring threat is minimal, & it's time for someone else to take the mantle.

Giggsy proved the priceless nature of a player who can collect the ball in the centre of the park & move it positively. Be it a 10 yard carry & lay off or an incisive first time hit to a colleague - he was choosing his options so well (up until the CL final...) & in the most fitting of tributes was rewarded with the PFA award. His influence & experience in deciding how to play the game can't be over emphasised, his courage to continue to play positively is a lesson in itself. Ronaldo used to get up & dribble, or shoot, again & again no matter how many times he was kicked or hit row Z. Ferge praised that & we may have got frustrated, but it was a commendable attribute, he never hid. Giggs doesn't hide when it comes to playing in a more refined way, but one that is equally as positive. & as well as Fletcher, Carrick & Anderson can play, I'm not convinced any of them have what it takes to influence the centre of the park the way Scholes & Giggs have. But with the squad, we can find places for all of them, without fail, they've done superbly in their own ways.

So how, or who would we turn to? We've got more wingers than you can shake a stick at. They're all now relatively inexperienced & Park aside, genuine wide men. So the middle of the pitch isn't going to get troubled by a clever turn, a drop of a shoulder & a movement that opens a side up by any of them.

I was gagging for Diego or Gourcuff. A shiney Jonny Foriegner with a flash name that can do something unexpected but also has reached a stage in their career where a move to a big side would see them reach a new level. It remains to be seen if they do kick on & become the players I'm expecting, but the fact is they're not coming here so who is the alternative?

Tradtionally, United would throw some cash at a domestic rival & poach the best of the rest as it were. Yorke, Cole, Carrick, Berbatov, Ferdinand etc. Players who have shown a willingness to want to express themselves & capable of fitting the system United have. Passing, moving, the team is greater than the sum of it's parts etc. So if we've exhausted the opportunities for an overseas player to come in, who would you view as a domestic option?

I think we can ignore anyone other than say maybe Modric from Spurs. We've already had their best player anyway. & Modric himself has struggled to get to grips with the physicality of this league. A fine player at International level mind. Arsenal? Fabregas or no one. & he'd cost £40m. Ouch. He also wants to £#%&! off to Barcelona, we might make the money back to replace him? No more £#%&!ing Scousers. End of. Everton have Arteta? Cheapish, good player, playing in a workman like side which he provides the class. Good on free kicks. Good age. Nice hair. No one from City, & Villa central midfield / creative department is basically Ashley Young. & we have enough young wingers already as discussed. The rest of the league... erm.... erm.................... frankly the Premier League, outside of the top 4, and the nouvaeu riche, is dogshit.

Which leads me to my drawn out answer... a man with a head so large it has been thought someone pressed his buttons in a special way & activated a 'comedy' cheat. No matter how large his swede is, he is a cracking player. & a genuine goal threat. & someone Fergie has admired for over a decade. & someone who might... just might, be surplus to requirements at his current club with a new manager, a new attacking wide player (Zhirkov) & a man who finished the season in fine form for them (Malouda) probably ahead of him as he returns from injury. Step forward Mr Joseph John Cole. He should be playing in the centre of the park. His last 3 full seasons at Chelsea have seen him score 9, 11 & 10 from midfield & a fair chunk of that is through the negative Mourinho period & upheaval around him. Never played in his 'correct' position, he's maturing - 27 at the moment, not 28 until late November. We know he can beat a man, he tackles - remember his season at West Ham when he was playing his %@#$&!s off in the middle of the pitch?

Here's a summary for anyone who can't be arsed with all that...: I think we should buy Joe Cole because no one else is available & he's actually a very good player.
 
Unread 07-07-2009, 04:33 PM
suedeshoes
 
Default

His heads too big for his body.

Hes got size 5 feet.

And hes shit.
 
Unread 07-07-2009, 04:35 PM
carlosartorial
 
Thumbs up

as much as I respect you as a knowlegable poster, Baron.....I can't be arsed reading all that.

It's July, so I'm off football atm.

(Good luck with the thread and everything though)
 
Unread 07-07-2009, 04:36 PM
Baron
 
Default

There's a summary at the bottom just for you Carlo
 
Unread 07-07-2009, 04:37 PM
MJ Ramone
 
Thumbs up

Joe Cole's not a bad shout.

Good player. Would settle in straight away..would understand the expectations of playing for United.

We could (& already have) do a lot worse.
 
Unread 07-07-2009, 04:38 PM
MJ Ramone
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlosartorial
(Good luck with the thread and everything though)
 
Unread 07-07-2009, 04:38 PM
carlosartorial
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon
There's a summary at the bottom just for you Carlo
 
Unread 07-07-2009, 04:39 PM
magic_cantona
 
Default

And not one mention of Berbatov being shit


We definately need some creativity but I couldn't see a) Ferguson going for Cole or b), if he did, Chelsea selling him.

Good shout though, I'd have him at OT.
 
Unread 07-07-2009, 04:39 PM
Baron
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by suedeshoes
His heads too big for his body.

Hes got size 5 feet.

And hes shit.
Maradona had tiny feet. & worse hair.

Either way, it's more about the fact he is a good player, under utilised, & fits the MO of Fergie's previous forrays into the domestic market for some inspiration.

I'm talking myself into this one.

The less I think about Owen the better in all honesty.
 
Unread 07-07-2009, 04:40 PM
Baron
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by magic_cantona
And not one mention of Berbatov being shit


We definately need some creativity but I couldn't see a) Ferguson going for Cole or b), if he did, Chelsea selling him.

Good shout though, I'd have him at OT.
I love Berbs
 
Unread 07-07-2009, 04:43 PM
Smeggs
 
Default

he can provide comedy in post match interviews.
 
Unread 07-07-2009, 04:44 PM
S/Side.Red
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon
So how, or who would we turn to? We've got more wingers than you can shake a stick at. They're all now relatively inexperienced & Park aside, genuine wide men. So the middle of the pitch isn't going to get troubled by a clever turn, a drop of a shoulder & a movement that opens a side up by any of them.
I'm not sure this idea of Valencia being an out and out winger isn't a bit of a myth. I've never bothered watching enough of Wigan to comment on his exact role over the course of a season there, but generally at international level and I believe throughout his career before he came to England, he often played from inside. Maybe he'll be used primarily on the flank, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of him being played on the right of a three-man midfield at times, where he would undoubtedly offer the kind of thrust and explosive, positive running often talked of as being lacking from central areas.
 
Unread 07-07-2009, 04:48 PM
Billy Baroo
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by magic_cantona
And not one mention of Berbatov being shit


We definately need some creativity but I couldn't see a) Ferguson going for Cole or b), if he did, Chelsea selling him.

Good shout though, I'd have him at OT.
how many £#%&!ing times do you need to be told the spelling is 'definitely' before it sinks in?
 
Unread 07-07-2009, 04:50 PM
Baron
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
I'm not sure this idea of Valencia being an out and out winger isn't a bit of a myth. I've never bothered watching enough of Wigan to comment on his exact role over the course of a season there, but generally at international level and I believe throughout his career before he came to England, he often played from inside. Maybe he'll be used primarily on the flank, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of him being played on the right of a three-man midfield at times, where he would undoubtedly offer the kind of thrust and explosive, positive running often talked of as being lacking from central areas.
Duly noted, however... I'll definitely stick to the principle that he's not the creative type the way Giggs, or Scholes, or the others I mentioned are. His power, pace, foot speed etc I hope wont be in doubt, but his ability to pick a pass, try a trick in a tight spot etc, I think that is still going to be missing.

Here's something a bit painful to watch, but a £#%&!ing great goal nonetheless...


Shit defending, blah blah. He has great ability & he can do it at the highest level. Fergie placing some trust in him - a fee of less than £20m (you'd £#%&!ing well hope) & he could make a hell of a difference to our side.
 
Unread 07-07-2009, 04:52 PM
magic_cantona
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Baroo
how many £#%&!ing times do you need to be told the spelling is 'definitely' before it sinks in?
Definately a few times more.
 
Unread 07-07-2009, 04:56 PM
borsuk
 
Default

http://www.utdforum.com/forum/showpo...2&postcount=30

http://www.utdforum.com/forum/showpo...4&postcount=93

http://www.utdforum.com/forum/showpo...6&postcount=83


been banging this particular drum for a while as you know, baron. giggs plastered over some cracks in m/f last year impressively enough but we can't rely on that for long, or for the whole season (he struggled towards the end a bit as well).

i can't see joe cole coming now, though. a bit too old for fergie to mould, sadly. schneijder would be perfect imo. he can play on the left of a three, further up or in the middle, is technically very good and has a genuine goal threat. good age, shouldn't have any problems settling in and is definitely on the market. i don't think there's a player who would be a better fit for us.
 
Unread 07-07-2009, 04:58 PM
borsuk
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
I'm not sure this idea of Valencia being an out and out winger isn't a bit of a myth. I've never bothered watching enough of Wigan to comment on his exact role over the course of a season there, but generally at international level and I believe throughout his career before he came to England, he often played from inside. Maybe he'll be used primarily on the flank, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of him being played on the right of a three-man midfield at times, where he would undoubtedly offer the kind of thrust and explosive, positive running often talked of as being lacking from central areas.
phil vickery (one of the few pundits whose opinion i respect) was making the same point the other day. he's been used primarily wide right for wigan but he has the strength and workrate to play inside as well. just not sure about his tactical awareness and discipline.
 
Unread 07-07-2009, 04:59 PM
captain scarlet
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by borsuk
http://www.utdforum.com/forum/showpo...2&postcount=30

http://www.utdforum.com/forum/showpo...4&postcount=93

http://www.utdforum.com/forum/showpo...6&postcount=83


been banging this particular drum for a while as you know, baron. giggs plastered over some cracks in m/f last year impressively enough but we can't rely on that for long, or for the whole season (he struggled towards the end a bit as well).

i can't see joe cole coming now, though. a bit too old for fergie to mould, sadly. schneijder would be perfect imo. he can play on the left of a three, further up or in the middle, is technically very good and has a genuine goal threat. good age, shouldn't have any problems settling in and is definitely on the market. i don't think there's a player who would be a better fit for us.
What this guy said. I cannot understand why we don't move for him. He would seem to be exactly what we need.
 
Unread 07-07-2009, 05:00 PM
Billy Baroo
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by magic_cantona
Definately a few times more.
thick @#%&!
 
Unread 07-07-2009, 05:02 PM
Baron
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by borsuk
http://www.utdforum.com/forum/showpo...2&postcount=30

http://www.utdforum.com/forum/showpo...4&postcount=93

http://www.utdforum.com/forum/showpo...6&postcount=83


been banging this particular drum for a while as you know, baron. giggs plastered over some cracks in m/f last year impressively enough but we can't rely on that for long, or for the whole season (he struggled towards the end a bit as well).

i can't see joe cole coming now, though. a bit too old for fergie to mould, sadly. schneijder would be perfect imo. he can play on the left of a three, further up or in the middle, is technically very good and has a genuine goal threat. good age, shouldn't have any problems settling in and is definitely on the market. i don't think there's a player who would be a better fit for us.
*points to nose & Borsuk simultaneously*

He's a similar player, I think he's done well for Real in his time there but he's also kicked off a bit & not tested here. Cole wouldn't need a vast amount of moulding, he's played against us, knows the league, the CL & squad rotation. At 27 he's in his peak & with the inexperience around him on the wings would surely add some much needed nous.

I wouldn't kick up a fuss should Wesley arrive though. Can never have enough Wes's in the first XI.

Good shout on Owen in the links as well. The little @#%&!.
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