Mkhi Mouse

Originally Posted by Alan

How much of a problem was he at Dortmund when played in a system that suited him?

This continual blame of individual players on here is just delusion from people unwilling to see the bigger picture.

On the contrary, excuses are continually made for players who are not up to the required standard. With some players, it is always someone elses fault that they are not performing. Too many of them shirk responsibility and disappear.

A more ruthless approach is required to get rid of some of the players who are not good enough - which will probably see the Armenian or Mata, or both binned in the summer. Hopefully, the other Spanish midfielder will join then,

I can tell you now that United will not win a league title with the Armenian in such a key attacking position. Not only is he physically weak, he is also a mental midget. Well done on him for performing for Dortmund, so did the little Japanese fella.

Originally Posted by dunk

You are making no sense pal. I said Mata suffers from the style of play as well

Good. Glad that is cleared up then.

Originally Posted by Coracao

On the contrary, excuses are continually made for players who are not up to the required standard. With some players, it is always someone elses fault that they are not performing. Too many of them shirk responsibility and disappear.

A more ruthless approach is required to get rid of some of the players who are not good enough - which will probably see the Armenian or Mata, or both binned in the summer. Hopefully, the other Spanish midfielder will join then,

I can tell you now that United will not win a league title with the Armenian in such a key attacking position. Not only is he physically weak, he is also a mental midget. Well done on him for performing for Dortmund, so did the little Japanese fella.



Good. Glad that is cleared up then.

You realise this is a thread about Mkhitaryan?

Would love to see Mata and Herrera sold, providing they are replaced with a proper right sided attacker and a proper CM. Still think Mkhitaryan has something to offer though, in fact, he's already shown he has this very season.

Originally Posted by dunk

You realise this is a thread about Mkhitaryan?

.

No shit. I was laughing at the fact you were criticising peiple who slag off the Armenian, when the excuses you used for him are the exact ones people could use for Mata. A player who you don't stop criticising.

Let's leave it there, eh.

Originally Posted by Coracao

No shit. I was laughing at the fact you were criticising peiple who slag off the Armenian, when the excuses you used for him are the exact ones people could use for Mata. A player who you don't stop criticising.

Let's leave it there, eh.

Ah, no wonder it was missed as it was utter %@#$&!s. Yes, let's leave it.

Originally Posted by dunk

Ah, no wonder it was missed as it was utter %@#$&!s. Yes, let's leave it.

I find it curious when people defend players who are clearly not doing what they’re in the team to do purely by citing the type of player they’re purported to be. “They can play...they can make stuff happen...” So what? Are they?

It’s pretty simple; everyone has their role to play. If we were losing 5-3 every week, who’d be getting the criticism then? When players who are in the team to create, assist and score don’t create, assist and score, who gets criticised for that, De Gea?

Stats have their place, but apply much better to individual sports like batter/pitcher in baseball, or tennis. Stats in football never tell the whole story; for that you need eyes. Something is wrong with Mikhitaryan but he’s not alone among our forwards.

Originally Posted by Zorg

Please stop saying Chelski.

Your wish is my command

Serious question, though - why?

Originally Posted by utd99

I find it curious when people defend players who are clearly not doing what they’re in the team to do purely by citing the type of player they’re purported to be. “They can play...they can make stuff happen...” So what? Are they?

It’s pretty simple; everyone has their role to play. If we were losing 5-3 every week, who’d be getting the criticism then? When players who are in the team to create, assist and score don’t create, assist and score, who gets criticised for that, De Gea?

Stats have their place, but apply much better to individual sports like batter/pitcher in baseball, or tennis. Stats in football never tell the whole story; for that you need eyes. Something is wrong with Mikhitaryan but he’s not alone among our forwards.

I think the point being made about Mkhi is that we aren't involving him enough. Someone in that role requires the ball constantly. If he's a mobile player who always shows but you only end up giving him the ball 25 times in a game, the issue could be more collective.

I'd say Mou sees him as someone to spring the break. Get it on the turn and either carry it directly or look for the quick throughball. He isn't being found though as we are scared of giving the ball away in our half; most seem to prefer clearing it 50 yards. The combination play at the moment is horrendously non existent.

Another victim of Mourinhos " pragmatism " . He looked a World beater earlier in the season when Jose " Let the horses run free " . He's no De Bruyne but who is ? Our best number 10 & just like Lukaku he is being strangled . He's better than Spurs Erickson but he always has options & players moving around him . Agree he's shit defensively but he's a number 10, not many of those can or really should excel in defence.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I think the point being made about Mkhi is that we aren't involving him enough. Someone in that role requires the ball constantly. If he's a mobile player who always shows but you only end up giving him the ball 25 times in a game, the issue could be more collective.

I'd say Mou sees him as someone to spring the break. Get it on the turn and either carry it directly or look for the quick throughball. He isn't being found though as we are scared of giving the ball away in our half; most seem to prefer clearing it 50 yards. The combination play at the moment is horrendously non existent.

Totally agree. In recent games there has been no real attempt to play counter attacking football, it's been a case of clear the lines & reorganise. He needs ball to feet & runners off him.

Originally Posted by Kangared

Another victim of Mourinhos " pragmatism " . He looked a World beater earlier in the season when Jose " Let the horses run free " . He's no De Bruyne but who is ? Our best number 10 & just like Lukaku he is being strangled . He's better than Spurs Erickson but he always has options & players moving around him . Agree he's shit defensively but he's a number 10, not many of those can or really should excel in defence.


Totally agree. In recent games there has been no real attempt to play counter attacking football, it's been a case of clear the lines & reorganise. He needs ball to feet & runners off him.

Yeah, it's obviously a hugely different side to the one he thrived in at Dortmund under Tuchel, who plays the possession technical game, but his adaptation isn't really helped by this role. Whether we bypass him most of the time as a deliberate tactic from Mourinho, who is happy for Mkhi to mainly press and hope for one or two great moments when he does get it, or because the other players don't have the composure to find him, is hard to say.

Of course Mourinho publicly congratulated himself for bypassing midfield on a couple of occasions toward the back end of last season. It's probably hard to flick the switch on and off for players.

Originally Posted by Kangared

Another victim of Mourinhos " pragmatism " . He looked a World beater earlier in the season when Jose " Let the horses run free " . He's no De Bruyne but who is ? Our best number 10 & just like Lukaku he is being strangled . He's better than Spurs Erickson but he always has options & players moving around him . Agree he's shit defensively but he's a number 10, not many of those can or really should excel in defence.


Totally agree. In recent games there has been no real attempt to play counter attacking football, it's been a case of clear the lines & reorganise. He needs ball to feet & runners off him.

He is not better than Christian Eriksen ffs

Originally Posted by Stickman

He is not better than Christian Eriksen ffs

He's absolutely nowhere near

Originally Posted by Coracao

He's absolutely nowhere near

Put MickyT in that Sours team & Eriksen in ours & Eriksen would look every bit as lost , probably more so. Eriksen gets the ball played in to him a lot more & always has runners & options . It's not the player, it's the system & mindset Mou installs. Every big game we start brightly but drop deeper & deeper & unless the opponent scored, chances are we won't even get a shot on goal in the last 60 minutes. We saw what he can do earlier in the season when we actually attached in numbers. MickyT is Eriksen with pace

Originally Posted by Kangared

Put MickyT in that Sours team & Eriksen in ours & Eriksen would look every bit as lost , probably more so. Eriksen gets the ball played in to him a lot more & always has runners & options . It's not the player, it's the system & mindset Mou installs. Every big game we start brightly but drop deeper & deeper & unless the opponent scored, chances are we won't even get a shot on goal in the last 60 minutes. We saw what he can do earlier in the season when we actually attached in numbers. MickyT is Eriksen with pace

Agreed. Not much in it.

Said the same comparing him to thriving Liverpool players in their system.

He's better than Mo Salah by a country mile....but far less effective right now.

Originally Posted by Kangared

Put MickyT in that Sours team & Eriksen in ours & Eriksen would look every bit as lost , probably more so. Eriksen gets the ball played in to him a lot more & always has runners & options . It's not the player, it's the system & mindset Mou installs. Every big game we start brightly but drop deeper & deeper & unless the opponent scored, chances are we won't even get a shot on goal in the last 60 minutes. We saw what he can do earlier in the season when we actually attached in numbers. MickyT is Eriksen with pace

And when he does have the ball he gets knocked off it. Eriksen is a level up from Mkhitaryan, certainly with regard to his uses in the English Premier anyway.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Yeah, it's obviously a hugely different side to the one he thrived in at Dortmund under Tuchel, who plays the possession technical game, but his adaptation isn't really helped by this role. Whether we bypass him most of the time as a deliberate tactic from Mourinho, who is happy for Mkhi to mainly press and hope for one or two great moments when he does get it, or because the other players don't have the composure to find him, is hard to say.

Of course Mourinho publicly congratulated himself for bypassing midfield on a couple of occasions toward the back end of last season. It's probably hard to flick the switch on and off for players.

In a team game it’s easy to pass the buck around if you want to defend a certain player. So and so was exposed because he got no cover, so and so doesn’t score because he gets no service, so and so can’t create because he has no one making runs, so and so can’t get in the game because the manager doesn’t play to his strengths....it’s partly true, partly an excuse and £#%&!ing endless.

In the end everyone has to take responsibility for their own contribution. The stats may say Mikhitaryan had a solid game, but did he? Was his first touch good? Did he make any penetrating runs to loosen up the defence? Was he getting into good positions to force the play? The best players don’t need others to be in peak form before they shine.

Originally Posted by utd99

In a team game it’s easy to pass the buck around if you want to defend a certain player. So and so was exposed because he got no cover, so and so doesn’t score because he gets no service, so and so can’t create because he has no one making runs, so and so can’t get in the game because the manager doesn’t play to his strengths....it’s partly true, partly an excuse and f***ing endless.

In the end everyone has to take responsibility for their own contribution. The stats may say Mikhitaryan had a solid game, but did he? Was his first touch good? Did he make any penetrating runs to loosen up the defence? Was he getting into good positions to force the play? The best players don’t need others to be in peak form before they shine.

They don't; they merely show that he wasn't giving the ball away much at all. The low involvement is the more telling thing. I hear what you're saying about passing the responsibility, but it is a team game and the collective setting is important. Both need consideration.

With the exception of Hazard, with whom he had a difficult relationship which ultimately ended badly, Mourinho has not always had great rapport or consistent productivity from the flair players he's had in English football. It's perhaps the one type of player where his record isn't great. Salah and De Bruyne, arguably to the two best of their type in the league right now, being ones he cast aside.

Originally Posted by Kangared

Put MickyT in that Sours team & Eriksen in ours & Eriksen would look every bit as lost , probably more so. Eriksen gets the ball played in to him a lot more & always has runners & options . It's not the player, it's the system & mindset Mou installs. Every big game we start brightly but drop deeper & deeper & unless the opponent scored, chances are we won't even get a shot on goal in the last 60 minutes. We saw what he can do earlier in the season when we actually attached in numbers. MickyT is Eriksen with pace

Eriksen is a far better player. I really don't know how people can argue otherwise. Which were these great performances from the Armenian earlier in the season? He got a few assists in the games where we racked up late goals. I don't 'remember any performances where he was this supposed great player.

Originally Posted by Coracao

Eriksen is a far better player. I really don't know how people can argue otherwise. Which were these great performances from the Armenian earlier in the season? He got a few assists in the games where we racked up late goals. I don't 'remember any performances where he was this supposed great player.

They obviously watched him a lot at Dortmund. Probably the same people who thought Kagawa was good

Originally Posted by 20 times

They obviously watched him a lot at Dortmund. Probably the same people who thought Kagawa was good

No, rarely watch the Bundesliga. In saying that he did get voted the best player in said League, that's some accolade. I wonder how good the likes of Coutinho & Eriksen would fare playing in the system Jose adopts, which is really only a slight step up from the Wimbledon of the early 90's style. The whole mindset is to simply hoof it upfield & hope Lukaku or Rashford can do something with it. Mourinho gets annoyed at criticism of his style. The only way he can justify that type of garbage approach is by winning. MickyT, like Martial, is a victim of Mourinhos obsession with stopping other teams.