Louis van Gaal brandishes Manchester United players as 'unprofessional' for ignoring his feedback

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Your point was that it was deliberate.

it was, wasn't it?

definitely never in danger of breaking old moyesie's crossing record.

god, it shouldn't have been this hard to follow fergie.

Originally Posted by jem

it was, wasn't it?

definitely never in danger of breaking old moyesie's crossing record.

god, it shouldn't have been this hard to follow fergie.

It's often down to the player to find the right balance. Guardiola discourages resorting to low percentage balls forward or shots from distance. Doesn't mean you can't do them but it's a cheap way to give the ball away unless you know what you're doing (planned long balls to a specific target etc) and they would both see keeping it and being patient as braver. As he always said, he wants to teach them, and then let them figure it out. Players avoided far too much responsibility during that time.

Plus, they just weren't that good. Team with past-it Rooney up top struggles to break down deep defences shock. Personnel a huge issue.

Originally Posted by ScholesGingerSheen

If the choice is between finishing second in the league playing football like this or finishing second playing better football I'll take the latter,

No shit.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I have no doubt that if we were in exactly this position but playing great football, Mourinho wouldn't be under any pressure at all.

£#%&! me, the forum’s on form tonight.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

It's often down to the player to find the right balance. Guardiola discourages resorting to low percentage balls forward or shots from distance. Doesn't mean you can't do them but it's a cheap way to give the ball away unless you know what you're doing (planned long balls to a specific target etc) and they would both see keeping it and being patient as braver. As he always said, he wants to teach them, and then let them figure it out. Players avoided far too much responsibility during that time.

Plus, they just weren't that good. Team with past-it Rooney up top struggles to break down deep defences shock. Personnel a huge issue.

He also seems to understand the perfectly simple premise, like Fergie did, that the best way to score goals is to get lots of players arriving in the box and giving the man on the ball options. I've lost count of the amount of goals they've scored this season by simply squaring the ball across the 18 yard box for a tap in.

Our method at the moment seems to be to try and pick out 2 players against 6 defenders by swinging in crosses from 40 yards out. We also never ever see anyone run beyond the man with the ball.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

He also seems to understand the perfectly simple premise, like Fergie did, that the best way to score goals is to get lots of players arriving in the box and giving the man on the ball options. I've lost count of the amount of goals they've scored this season by simply squaring the ball across the 18 yard box for a tap in.

Our method at the moment seems to be to try and pick out 2 players against 6 defenders by swinging in crosses from 40 yards out. We also never ever see anyone run beyond the man with the ball.

Yep.

Unfortunately, unlike Van Gaal, I think Guardiola has English football properly figured out. He has better players too of course, and he’d have watched LvG for homework. But during those years in German football - which is so different to La Liga - he developed those more basic concepts about more direct football and just filling the box.

It was common to see against Dortmund who pressed so well, sometimes Boateng just lumped it to Lewandowski. They have a similar thing now. Stand off and they will play their way through and suffocate you, but they also have a goalkeeper who can put the ball on Aguero or Sane’s toe from 80 yards if you want to push up. Not to mention De Bruyne’s long range passing.

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

No shit..

Well Mou has been presenting it as all about results. But we could be 15 points behind City and beaten by Sevilla without drama if it felt like something was being developed.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Your point was that it was deliberate. I'm just saying that if he had a De Bruyne or Silva threading passes through he'd have been alright with it. Also when the team is committed to play in the opponent's half you obviously do need to be more careful.

The movement between the lines and the speed of the circulation of the ball was the bigger issue, rather than the choice of pass. City move the ball sideways and backwards a huge amount and they obviously make loads of short passes. They do it pretty quickly though.

This was a problem of his own making though.

He sold all the players we had who played with any dynamism - Rafael, Nani, Welbeck, Kagawa - and left us with either immobile (Rooney, Mata) players or players who aren't very good at football and want others to be the match winners (Fellaini, Young).

He then added to that an army of signings who also fell in those groups, bar Martial, Shaw & Depay.

Philosophy - great, execution - abysmal, mainly because he signed & retained mediocre players.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Yep.

Unfortunately, unlike Van Gaal, I think Guardiola has English football properly figured out. He has better players too of course, and he’d have watched LvG for homework. But during those years in German football - which is so different to La Liga - he developed those more basic concepts about more direct football and just filling the box.

It was common to see against Dortmund who pressed so well, sometimes Boateng just lumped it to Lewandowski. They have a similar thing now. Stand off and they will play their way through and suffocate you, but they also have a goalkeeper who can put the ball on Aguero or Sane’s toe from 80 yards if you want to push up. Not to mention De Bruyne’s long range passing.



Well Mou has been presenting it as all about results. But we could be 15 points behind City and beaten by Sevilla without drama if it felt like something was being developed.

I've seen several interviews with Guardiola where he basically talks about how he's endlessly drilled his players to win 2nd balls as that's the key in English football.

It's something we're absolutely dreadful at. In fact actually win the ball off the opposition is something we're terrible at full stop. We manage to block and suffocate on the edge of our own box but you'll never see any of our players win a tackle 50 yards up the pitch or heaven forbid, in the opposition half.

Its why we struggle so badly when we go behind these days. Because our gameplan is reactive as opposed to pro-active. When your whole game revolves around letting the opponent have the ball and relying on them to get sloppy, you're kind of £#%&!ed when you then have to chase the game.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

he’d have watched LvG for homework.

poor kid.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

we could be 15 points behind City and beaten by Sevilla without drama if it felt like something was being developed.

mou is the uzbek lab of the premier league.

Van Gaal took a risk in his very high line but his team lacked bravery. The two weren't mutually exclusive. Bravery would have been to attempt ambitious passes and players moving quickly to displace the opposition's set up. His previous clubs had the calibre of players to do so, at Utd not so much. That's why the players got into a robotic like stature because not only were they trying a way of playing most of them never did before, they knew it was beyond them so rather than go suicidal, we saw the backwards and sideways passing and continous second thought football.

Van Gaal's principles were fine. The players asked to employ them weren't. Largely down to his own mistakes in the market. Nonetheless the foundations he put in place with the possession based game did have some memorable days: the best away performance at Anfield in years, dismantling City, a tremendous display with a depleted defence at Stamford Bridge vs Mourinho's Chelsea (Shaw ironically was superb). And of course the FA Cup.

Had we followed him with a manager with similar values but a more flexible fist I believe we'd be better off. At least we wouldn't have had to resort to reductionist, underdog claptrap this current manager is doing.

Pochettino was my choice then and I'm more certain now. He has the ideals that playing on the front foot with youth, verve and courage is the way to go win, lose or draw but he has time on his side to develop and look after players whereas LvG was at the wrong end of his career to do a complete restructure.

Originally Posted by Ranier Wolfcastle

This was a problem of his own making though.

He sold all the players we had who played with any dynamism - Rafael, Nani, Welbeck, Kagawa - and left us with either immobile (Rooney, Mata) players or players who aren't very good at football and want others to be the match winners (Fellaini, Young).

He then added to that an army of signings who also fell in those groups, bar Martial, Shaw & Depay.

Philosophy - great, execution - abysmal, mainly because he signed & retained mediocre players.

Obviously plenty of truth there. He inherited two strikers in Rooney and RvP and weak central defenders so that made him sure that he had to start with a 3-4-1-2 or however you want to interpret it. That left little room for Nani, Kagawa and those guys. Mata and Di Maria the creative players and Falcao joining a good strike force. He felt it enough for the first season and he was right on that, just about.

Second season we moved more into the right shape but he made the exact same mistake he made at Bayern. Had done alright in his first season and under-strengthened the squad. Left himself almost entirely reliant on Rooney, which was suicide and unfair on Wazza too.

He did the same at Bayern. World Cup year and refused to entertain big name additions because he liked the young players. Was probably good for Bayern long term, but bad for him. He's not selfish enough in those situations, especially with United his last job.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

I've seen several interviews with Guardiola where he basically talks about how he's endlessly drilled his players to win 2nd balls as that's the key in English football.

It's something we're absolutely dreadful at. In fact actually win the ball off the opposition is something we're terrible at full stop. We manage to block and suffocate on the edge of our own box but you'll never see any of our players win a tackle 50 yards up the pitch or heaven forbid, in the opposition half.

Its why we struggle so badly when we go behind these days. Because our gameplan is reactive as opposed to pro-active. When your whole game revolves around letting the opponent have the ball and relying on them to get sloppy, you're kind of f***ed when you then have to chase the game.

Yep, pretty much. And our defence is nothing like resilient enough to be inviting anyone onto us.

Originally Posted by Buck

Van Gaal took a risk in his very high line but his team lacked bravery. The two weren't mutually exclusive. Bravery would have been to attempt ambitious passes and players moving quickly to displace the opposition's set up. His previous clubs had the calibre of players to do so, at Utd not so much. That's why the players got into a robotic like stature because not only were they trying a way of playing most of them never did before, they knew it was beyond them so rather than go suicidal, we saw the backwards and sideways passing and continous second thought football.

Van Gaal's principles were fine. The players asked to employ them weren't. Largely down to his own mistakes in the market. Nonetheless the foundations he put in place with the possession based game did have some memorable days: the best away performance at Anfield in years, dismantling City, a tremendous display with a depleted defence at Stamford Bridge vs Mourinho's Chelsea (Shaw ironically was superb). And of course the FA Cup.

Had we followed him with a manager with similar values but a more flexible fist I believe we'd be better off. At least we wouldn't have had to resort to reductionist, underdog claptrap this current manager is doing.

Pochettino was my choice then and I'm more certain now. He has the ideals that playing on the front foot with youth, verve and courage is the way to go win, lose or draw but he has time on his side to develop and look after players whereas LvG was at the wrong end of his career to do a complete restructure.

Well put.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Well Mou has been presenting it as all about results. But we could be 15 points behind City and beaten by Sevilla without drama if it felt like something was being developed.

For a manager it is. Not like Fergie thought any different. If we beat seville we wouldn’t have this fuss.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Shame so few saw the bigger picture

Bigger picture ?

We saw the team regressing despite massive money spent. I just don't get the blind love you have for this guy. It was the worst football I have ever seen us play. We were creating £#%&! all chances, scoring £#%&! all goals & it was getting worse every week

Originally Posted by Kangared

Bigger picture ?

We saw the team regressing despite massive money spent. I just don't get the blind love you have for this guy. It was the worst football I have ever seen us play. We were creating f*** all chances, scoring f*** all goals & it was getting worse every week

On a wind up most times.
Rare occasions, he's just talking %@#$&!s.


No different to the rest of us

Originally Posted by Kangared

Bigger picture ?

We saw the team regressing despite massive money spent. I just don't get the blind love you have for this guy. It was the worst football I have ever seen us play. We were creating f*** all chances, scoring f*** all goals & it was getting worse every week

Seven goals in the last three games under the Big Man. Won nine of his last 12 games.

"Getting worse every week"

Get your facts right, pal.

Originally Posted by Clarkie

On a wind up most times.
Rare occasions, he's just talking balls.


No different to the rest of us

And you claim not to be snide

I guess Nick Powell read his emails at least

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

And you claim not to be snide

I'm genuine and honest my friend.
Tbf, I included us all in the talking shite description

Originally Posted by Lazlo Panaflex

i think it was time to go when he did go. Went out on a high.

Personally i never saw him winning the league. I wanted him to build a foundation for his replacement. It was more of a long term view.

but the club went for the easy option. A washed up clown who had a smash and burn history, but now only burns. Like a rare jungle std.

Would take poch or someone like that and happily wait 3 years for a trophy if he was building a young, creative, enjoyable side.

Went out on a high? He was outplayed by a palace side ffs

and then while picking up the cup news ticks through of Mou replacing him

A high looool

"Washed up" mou has outperformed your idol in every conceivable way bar possesion stats.

These anti mou guys will be fuming when we win the league next season. Fuming.

Originally Posted by Clarkie

On a wind up most times.
Rare occasions, he's just talking %@#$&!s.


No different to the rest of us

It’s as if some people don’t understand what the internet is for.

Originally Posted by TheFatGoth

I guess Nick Powell read his emails at least

Originally Posted by saffers

These anti mou guys will be fuming when we win the league next season. Fuming.

Whilst I think Van Gaal was an absolute dipstick, that looks fairly far fetched to me.