blame whoever you want..but the blame lays at feries door

It has never been about the system, it is about attitude and intent. We have proved this season that we are capable of playing superb flowing football in a 4-5-1 variant. It was a loss of nerve last night, along with the problems in defence spreading uncertainty throughout the team.


What would not have helped last night was in the first 5 mins the shocking defending of Heinze down our left hand side, continually being caught out of position and making the defence very nervous We needed a good start, a solid first 20 mins to get over the nerves, But Vidic and Heinze were exposed early on.

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

He doesn't really 'coshe's essentially saying it was entirely Fergies fault. Of course some of the blame lies with him but there are a huge number of other reasons,not least the fact that his players spent the whole night giving the ball away.

But why were they giving the ball away? That is not a root cause. That is a sympton of something else. Motivation? Training? That is what Im trying to get across. You have players, who should take responsibility. But you also have a manager to turn things round when stuff goes wrong, or stopping it going wrong in the first place.
I get what youre saying, and its an exageration, but by your reasoning, Keane hasnt done a great job at Sunderland, the players just happen to be passing to each other, playing nice football and finding the net?

Originally Posted by Argentina

With the formation that was played and the attitude the players went out with its an educated guess

debatable.

I was up for a reasoned debate about this issue until you spouted 'judging modern players by old standards'. That's just stupid. WTF?

Your last two points regarding players needing motivation to keep posession of the football (at this standard) and the fact that modern day footballers are unable to motivate themselves are quite frankly laughable. You clearly havent got a clue what your talking about. You're not evening arguing you're own opinion by all accounts..?

Anyway to lay the blame at Fergies door for the lack of courage, commitment and ability to hold onto the ball last night is very naiive.

Originally Posted by Argentina

But why were they giving the ball away? That is not a root cause. That is a sympton of something else. Motivation? Training? That is what Im trying to get across. You have players, who should take responsibility. But you also have a manager to turn things round when stuff goes wrong, or stopping it going wrong in the first place.
I get what youre saying, and its an exageration, but by your reasoning, Keane hasnt done a great job at Sunderland, the players just happen to be passing to each other, playing nice football and finding the net?

how blinkered can you be to ignore the rest of the season entirely and focus on one very bad performance with certain mitigating circumstances?

Originally Posted by Argentina

I get what youre saying, and its an exageration, but by your reasoning, Keane hasnt done a great job at Sunderland, the players just happen to be passing to each other, playing nice football and finding the net?

Not at all, everyone involved be they management or players bear responsibility for every performance. Effers is trying to suggest that it's all Fergies fault, I'm just making the point that others bear as much and in my opinion more responsibility by far. Also their were a number of mitigating factors acting against us. It's basically idiotic to ignore all this and just blame Fergie.

Originally Posted by Billy Baroo

if we win the league will pure be calling for his head. as has been mentioned earlier, what the manager has achieved this season with a squad with no depth and injury riddled at key times is nothing short of astonishing

Originally Posted by Billy Baroo

how blinkered can you be to ignore the rest of the season entirely and focus on one very bad performance with certain mitigating circumstances?

Exactly! Im not calling for his head. But if Fergie is being praised for this then he should be criticesed for last night!
Holding Milan to a draw was by no means the hardest task that he has faced motivating his players for this season

Originally Posted by Barca '91

debatable.

I was up for a reasoned debate about this issue until you spouted 'judging modern players by old standards'. That's just stupid. WTF?

Your last two points regarding players needing motivation to keep posession of the football (at this standard) and the fact that modern day footballers are unable to motivate themselves are quite frankly laughable. You clearly havent got a clue what your talking about. You're not evening arguing you're own opinion by all accounts..?

Anyway to lay the blame at Fergies door for the lack of courage, commitment and ability to hold onto the ball last night is very naiive.

OK. So players who are earning enough in a year to see them able retire for life is just like it used to be in the old days? Shout at most players now, they just think, £#%&! it, Im on xxk a week.
The fact that they could not pass between themselves is to do with preparation. And motivation, of course, YES!

Originally Posted by Argentina

OK. So players who are earning enough in a year to see them able retire for life is just like it used to be in the old days? Shout at most players now, they just think, £#%&! it, Im on xxk a week.
The fact that they could not pass between themselves is to do with preparation. And motivation, of course, YES!

If that is your honest opinion I genuinely feel sorry for you having such a bleak outlook.

How many players do you think SAF would have like that in the dressing room?

Originally Posted by Barca '91

If that is your honest opinion I genuinely feel sorry for you having such a bleak outlook.

How many players do you think SAF would have like that in the dressing room?

You say that but then say that SAF has players in his dressing room who have bottled in on the biggest stage?

it was one £#%&!ing game without a back four. how hard is that to understand

£#%&! me, me and 10 mates could go out with all the passion in the world but we would still get turned over

Originally Posted by Billy Baroo

it was one £#%&!ing game without a back four. how hard is that to understand

£#%&! me, me and 10 mates could go out with all the passion in the world but we would still get turned over

I'm nt sure how a bit of fist shaking and a good shout would've changed too much last night. Load of old %@#$&!s all that if you ask me.

Originally Posted by Billy Baroo

it was one £#%&!ing game without a back four. how hard is that to understand

£#%&! me, me and 10 mates could go out with all the passion in the world but we would still get turned over

Did it the week before

The fact that we couldn't pass the ball under pressure is my biggest concern. nft.

Originally Posted by Argentina

Did it the week before

oh well, it's that easy, of course

should have thought of that

i'll remember that every time we play. we won last week so obviouly we'll win this week

glad you pointed that out

Originally Posted by Billy Baroo

oh well, it's that easy, of course

should have thought of that

i'll remember that every time we play. we won last week so obviouly we'll win this week

glad you pointed that out

Your sarcasm.... ...we were able to overcome Milan with a makeshift defence. Only needed a draw last night with Vidic to bolster. Difference was we were allowed to play at home. Shackled by a defensive mindset

i think the point arg is making billy .is why they seemed to lack so much motivation in argubadly the biggest game of the season .. last week the pub team back 4 handled milan brilliant in the second half .what happened last nite .im £#%&!ed if i know . but the problem i have is ferguson not changing it when it should have been changed . he was tactically naive last nite .

Originally Posted by puressence

but the problem i have is ferguson not changing it when it should have been changed . .

I certainly agree with that, he made the change too late and got it wrong when he finally did it. He bears responsibility for this but it isn't the major reason we lost, though it is the major reason we went out without a fight.

It was ONE game, a GREAT season and we struggled in Milan, old and younger players struggled, it just didn't happen, that's football. We could have created one chance in the first five minutes and scored and gone onto win, it's detail, that's all. Ronaldo set the tone, doing a stupid flick pass in the first 5 minutes handing the ball to them which led to a big roar and from then on Milan didn't look back. He'll learn, Giggs was teriffied, simple as - and we had defenders out. We're on for a DOUBLE, £#%&! me, even just the title would be so good, imagine a double?

Originally Posted by puressence

i think the point arg is making billy .is why they seemed to lack so much motivation in argubadly the biggest game of the season .. last week the pub team back 4 handled milan brilliant in the second half .what happened last nite .im £#%&!ed if i know . but the problem i have is ferguson not changing it when it should have been changed . he was tactically naive last nite .

Because we was at home, we had to rescue the tie, Gattuso went off.

Who's to blame for us feeling sick with nerves yesterday because the impossible treble was on?

Originally Posted by Argentina

Your sarcasm.... ...we were able to overcome Milan with a makeshift defence. Only needed a draw last night with Vidic to bolster. Difference was we were allowed to play at home. Shackled by a defensive mindset

yes we overcame milan with some last minute brilliance, we then picked ourselves up after that exhausting game and came back against everton 4 days later.

you can't just keep doing this and papering over the cracks, if the midfield or attack aren't on fire or you come up against a top side on a really good night you can't rely on that. you need a defence

our players are shattered physically