United v Marseille Match Thread

Originally Posted by MarioKempes

It's the usual option for me with home games now, the pub. It feels almost cleansing.
I just can't bring myself to miss aways, we need violent action against the @#%&!s who're infesting.

Last game I went to was Chelsea a couple weeks back.

Our support was depressing. Mongs giving each other high 5's when we scored, then leaving ten minutes before the end.

You're spot on when you say the culture has been sanitized. There's no more passionate rowdiness. People are too reserved.

Carling Cup aways are probably the only beacon of true support. Scunthorpe away earlier this season, for example, looked good. Not too many middle-class JCL tossers from Surrey would be willing to go to a game like that.

Originally Posted by Neo

Last game I went to was Chelsea a couple weeks back.

Our support was depressing. Mongs giving each other high 5's when we scored, then leaving ten minutes before the end.

You're spot on when you say the culture has been sanitized. There's no more passionate rowdiness. People are too reserved.

Carling Cup aways are probably the only beacon of true support. Scunthorpe away earlier this season, for example, looked good. Not too many middle-class JCL tossers from Surrey would be willing to go to a game like that.

It was fairly poor that yeah, decent pockets in the upper tier though. The rendition of bouncing busby babes early on was positive tbh.
Dick heads harassing Neville for photos when the match was on
Need a serious revival of football culture, however most who I know heavily into casual style business go to UFC instead. Shame really.

Originally Posted by Neo

Mongs giving each other high 5's when we scored

Jesus £#%&!ing Christ.

Originally Posted by MarioKempes

It was fairly poor that yeah, decent pockets in the upper tier though. The rendition of bouncing busby babes early on was positive tbh.
Dick heads harassing Neville for photos when the match was on
Need a serious revival of football culture, however most who I know heavily into casual style business go to UFC instead. Shame really.

united fans call that the calypso

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

united fans call that the calypso

I don't tbh. I could tell you something very 'one-up' about that, but I won't bother.

Originally Posted by MarioKempes

I don't tbh. I could tell you something very 'one-up' about that, but I won't bother.

No, please do.

Originally Posted by beansy

No, please do.

There's truly little point in posting it.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

the idea that we were second best all over the pitch at anfield because scholes and carrick started together is a bit silly really. there was far more to it than that.

you mocking the suggestion that marseille exposed our defensive weakness down the sides is equally silly. most of the threat to united has come down the sides this season and we are very rarely exposed through the middle.

united have a very good record with scholes and carrick starting together over the past couple of seasons, home and away, including in big games and half a dozen or more CL games. I would always be very confident to see their names on the team-sheet for a big game. variation and imagination in tactics is always and will continue to be the key to success at the highest level.

I think the majority of people would agree that the decision to play Scholes and Carrick as a midfield two against Liverpool was a huge mistake by Fergie. Obviously the majority are not always right, but in this case I think it would be futile to argue against them. Scholes was a passenger for much of the game, and Carrick failed to make any kind of impression. Liverpool's midfield runners were too much for him. Sure, there were other reasons for the loss, but that selection in midfield was a key factor in our inability to get a hold of the game, with the exception of a fifteen minute spell in the second half where Liverpool decided to sit back and protect their two goal cushion.

I would also disagree with the idea that we have been exposed down the sides this season more than anywhere else. I think our weaknesses have been glaringly obvious away from home - that is, we fail to retain possession enough in the middle of the park, which in turn leads us to sit back, soak up pressure and hit teams on the break. That inability to control the central midfield means we have less of the ball, and we are therefore less likely to score and more likely to concede, which has been the case all season away from Old Trafford.

I am an ardent supporter of variation in tactics as well, but my point is that the tactics used yesterday will not work against a more accomplished side, or even an average side away from home. I think that will be proven over the next few weeks as well. There is very little likelihood IMO that Ferguson will choose to play a partnership of Scholes and Carrick in our upcoming games against Arsenal at the Emirates, Chelsea at Old Trafford, City at Wembley or whoever we are drawn against in the Champion's League.

Yesterday's selection was shaped by Fergie's correct belief that Marseille would just sit back, providing our midfield with plenty of time on the ball. There is no way we will play that central midfield if more players are fit, and I think that will be proven over the next few weeks where we (thankfully) won't see the Scholes/Carrick partnership used against any opposition of noteworthy quality. Therefore proving that even Fergie has little faith in the midfield partnership that you believe has been so successful.

Edit: Looks like he's lost faith in Berbatov as well. You and 'Mr Ferguson' aren't on the same wavelength at the moment, it seems. Who knows, he might even come out and state that the Glazer's are negatively affecting his transfer policy...

Originally Posted by The Watcher

Can't wait for the Youth Cup semi final



If it's the Bernabeu, I'm there. But i'll be sitting with the Madridistas

Probably do the same myself.

I gave up my ST end of 06/07 season and don't miss it at all. Use to do the odd away and some Euro aways back then too when I was 17-20ish not been on one for years. I don't miss O.T at all, but miss aways/especially Euro aways. Started going O.T quite a bit last season with free tickets of my mates uncle and did a few earlier this season but we've even £#%&!ed them off now as it's more of a laugh in the pub and a better atmosphere. I wouldn't turn down a free ticket for a big game at O.T but we have done a few times for shit games, it's full of @#%&!s.

Originally Posted by Neo

I think the majority of people would agree that the decision to play Scholes and Carrick as a midfield two against Liverpool was a huge mistake by Fergie. Obviously the majority are not always right, but in this case I think it would be futile to argue against them. Scholes was a passenger for much of the game, and Carrick failed to make any kind of impression. Liverpool's midfield runners were too much for him. Sure, there were other reasons for the loss, but that selection in midfield was a key factor in our inability to get a hold of the game, with the exception of a fifteen minute spell in the second half where Liverpool decided to sit back and protect their two goal cushion.

I would also disagree with the idea that we have been exposed down the sides this season more than anywhere else. I think our weaknesses have been glaringly obvious away from home - that is, we fail to retain possession enough in the middle of the park, which in turn leads us to sit back, soak up pressure and hit teams on the break. That inability to control the central midfield means we have less of the ball, and we are therefore less likely to score and more likely to concede, which has been the case all season away from Old Trafford.

I am an ardent supporter of variation in tactics as well, but my point is that the tactics used yesterday will not work against a more accomplished side, or even an average side away from home. I think that will be proven over the next few weeks as well. There is very little likelihood IMO that Ferguson will choose to play a partnership of Scholes and Carrick in our upcoming games against Arsenal at the Emirates, Chelsea at Old Trafford, City at Wembley or whoever we are drawn against in the Champion's League.

Yesterday's selection was shaped by Fergie's correct belief that Marseille would just sit back, providing our midfield with plenty of time on the ball. There is no way we will play that central midfield if more players are fit, and I think that will be proven over the next few weeks where we (thankfully) won't see the Scholes/Carrick partnership used against any opposition of noteworthy quality. Therefore proving that even Fergie has little faith in the midfield partnership that you believe has been so successful.

Edit: Looks like he's lost faith in Berbatov as well. You and 'Mr Ferguson' aren't on the same wavelength at the moment, it seems. Who knows, he might even come out and state that the Glazer's are negatively affecting his transfer policy...

no offence, but your post is essentially a load of rubbish

i don't believe that the carrick scholes partnership 'has been so successful'. i was merely looking at the facts that the united side with the two of them starting has been successful in over 75% of the 20+ occasions it's been used over the past couple of seasons, including in big games and in half a dozen CL games. you may say that he won't use them together at arsenal or against city, or in the CL away from home. but the facts are that he did use them against arsenal away last season. and in milan. and in the LC s/f 2nd leg against city. and against chelsea at wembley this season. and at city in the 0-0. and at chelsea this season when we were excellent and very unlucky to lose (ditto last season). and at rangers. and at wolfsburg. and at villa...

if you don't think most of the threat against us is down the sides then you're insane. the inside and outside right channels - inside in particular - have long been a weakness, relatively speaking of course, since we have a terrific defence well protected by the midfield.


ps slating scholes and carrick for not getting to grips with the liverpool midfield at anfield completely misses the point. the tactics against liverpool especially away are usually to try and play as much of the game as far away from our own last third as possible, bog-standard stuff. ferguson has tried to do this over the last three seasons employing two or even three recognised strikers. it has failed each time. in 07/08 we nicked a win, of course, ditto the season before, despite being comprehensively out-played from start to finish that time.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

no offence, but your post is essentially a load of rubbish

i don't believe that the carrick scholes partnership 'has been so successful'. i was merely looking at the facts that the united side with the two of them starting has been successful in over 75% of the 20+ occasions it's been used over the past couple of seasons, including in big games and in half a dozen CL games. you may say that he won't use them together at arsenal or against city, or in the CL away from home. but the facts are that he did use them against arsenal away last season. and in milan. and in the LC s/f 2nd leg against city. and against chelsea at wembley this season. and at city in the 0-0. and at chelsea this season when we were excellent and very unlucky to lose (ditto last season). and at rangers. and at wolfsburg. and at villa...

ps slating scholes and carrick for not getting to grips with the liverpool midfield at anfield completely misses the point. the tactics against liverpool especially away are usually to try and play as much of the game as far away from our own last third as possible, bog-standard stuff. ferguson has tried to do this over the last three seasons employing two or even three recognised strikers. it has failed each time. in 07/08 we nicked a win, of course, despite being comprehensively out-played.

My point, as I'm sure you are aware, was in regard to a Scholes/Carrick partnership being used as a midfield two. I am a supporter of both of them playing in a midfield three, and I would say that is our strongest midfield - Carrick and Fletcher in front of the centre-backs with Scholes in an advanced position. That was the system used at The Emirates last season, and when Scholes was played further up the pitch it changed the game. In a 4-4-2 I'm not so sure they are as effective. We were good against Chelsea a few weeks ago for the majority of the first half, but I still think we eventually lost the battle in midfield which was the key reason we lost the game.

I stand by my earlier statement that I will be surprised to see a midfield two of Carrick and Scholes against any strong side away from home for the remainder of this season, unless injuries force Ferguson's hand. Their use as a pair at Stamford Bridge was IMO influenced by Fletcher's selection on the right side of midfield, with Fletcher coming inside to provide more cover centrally that a natural winger would.

I suspect we will now start playing with two natural wingers in Nani and Valencia, and I think Ferguson will be more reluctant to play Carrick and Scholes together in a 4-4-2 against a good side after what transpired at Anfield.

However, we shall have to wait and see, as the form of Hernandez and the rise of the partnership between him and Rooney will make it difficult to play just one striker, and if both play we will most likely use a two-man central midfield. Perhaps Scholes and Carrick will be used if Rooney continues to drop deep into midfield like he has been doing over the past couple of games. That is the only way I see the two-man midfield partnership of Scholes and Carrick working.

nothing united have done tactically, particularly with midfield and attack anyway, over the last couple of games has been new to ferguson. he has predominantly deployed that type of system throughout his time at united. there is no reason at all to think that he won't use it again during this run-in. it's a shame he ditched it so readily at this time last season tbh.