ETH surveillance 22/23

Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth

My reading of our situation:

1) horrific luck with injuries
2) horrific luck with rapey players and disciplinary issues
3) ongoing disruption from ownership/ceo changes etc
4) poor/diabolical signings and failure to address the weakest squad areas
5) lack of buy in to the tactics/training from senior players like Bruno and Rashford
6) disillusionment from the same players with the quality of player coming in
7) poor tactical set up and often poor in game management.
8) bad luck with var decisions.

Some issues are no one’s fault, some are the owners, some are the players and some are his.

This one I wonder about. I've been harping on about our signings but it must effect players. You sign a new contract with loads of promises and then you see Mount, Onana and two loanees come in. Even Hojlund. As good as may be one day, he's still a kid with a handful of goals. I'd be £#%&!ing raging. The bed of 50 pound notes would help but still be raging.

Originally Posted by shenwen

This one I wonder about. I've been harping on about our signings but it must effect players. You sign a new contract with loads of promises and then you see Mount, Onana and two loanees come in. Even Hojlund. As good as may be one day, he's still a kid with a handful of goals. I'd be £#%&!ing raging. The bed of 50 pound notes would help but still be raging.

It’s total speculation but I get the distinct impression that a few of our senior players are pissed off with the quality of transfers we’ve got in and the tactics being employed. Tbf, we all are. Like you say, Antony, Mount, Onana and even Hoijlund are possibly not what Bruno and Rashford expected. I think both those players are showing their disillusionment through sub par effort and performances. In the case of Rashford, he’s made it abundantly clear - less so with Bruno because he’s much cleverer.

They haven’t downed tools as such but they’ve stopped making the effort they should and are less committed than they should be.

I think we were always going to come across this point, half way through 3 years.

Last season after the opening games, there's no danger of him being sacked. So players had to buck their ideas up.

We also had a pretty settled spine for most of the season until post league cup win

We had...Dea Gea...Varane..Martinez...Casemiro..Bruno...Rashfor d. For the most part it was rock solid. We've not had anywhere near the same continuity this season.

I really hope Ten Hag can steer us through this point and he makes it to a 3rd season.

It really doesn't excuse his performances against the bigger sides especially away from home. Still, so much garbage to clear before I make my mind fully up on him, he needs to be allowed the time

Originally Posted by ryanMUFC

He really hasn’t helped himself or the club with his signings.

No wonder we’re skint.

Great apology for the Glazers

What other club has bugger all in the way of sporting directors who know what they are doing, leaves it all up to the manager and forces half the additions to be loan signings?

Originally Posted by RedNick80

Great apology for the Glazers

What other club has bugger all in the way of sporting directors who know what they are doing, leaves it all up to the manager and forces half the additions to be loan signings?

Exactly.

We're skint cos of EtH

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

Exactly.

We're skint cos of EtH

The money he's spent he has largely wasted

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

Exactly.

We're skint cos of EtH

Mad. Actually felt at one with the world this morning. Stellar and erudite postage from yourself, the Twins, Hyman, Jethro on the last page..

Then up pops Jem thinking that playing Mainoo on Sat would solve all our issues.

Originally Posted by History

I think we were always going to come across this point, half way through 3 years.

Last season after the opening games, there's no danger of him being sacked. So players had to buck their ideas up.

We also had a pretty settled spine for most of the season until post league cup win

We had...Dea Gea...Varane..Martinez...Casemiro..Bruno...Rashfor d. For the most part it was rock solid. We've not had anywhere near the same continuity this season.

I really hope Ten Hag can steer us through this point and he makes it to a 3rd season.

It really doesn't excuse his performances against the bigger sides especially away from home. Still, so much garbage to clear before I make my mind fully up on him, he needs to be allowed the time

you’re concerned with the manager making it to the third season as opposed to him actually proving he is the manager to take us forward.

Is he your uncle?
If he is doing as bad job he should rightfully be binned.
He hasn’t earnt the right for blind faith and his day to day decisions stink.
Next game we play i bet you at half time we will all be calling for changes…

Originally Posted by RedNick80

Great apology for the Glazers

What other club has bugger all in the way of sporting directors who know what they are doing, leaves it all up to the manager and forces half the additions to be loan signings?

Not really, what the club has spent on players affects us for FFP. Having the Glazers in charge doesn’t excuse bad choices being made.

Maybe getting a sporting director is the way but we’ve had a lot of success over the years without one.

The manager has been picking his targets. You’d think he’d want at least 2 strikers with us resorting to Wout Weghorst last season yet we’re relying on Martial.

Originally Posted by RedNick80

Great apology for the Glazers

What other club has bugger all in the way of sporting directors who know what they are doing, leaves it all up to the manager and forces half the additions to be loan signings?

well we hired a manager and gave him totally control over transfers like he demanded.
Most even go through his agents company including agents have to JV through them to get players in and out the club.

He has also signed players he worked with before which is more than a sure bet yet they are the worst performers in the squad for money spent.

A the glazers are terrible owners but ETH has made it not necessarily a money issue as the funds have been spent.
400m and loan deals and your argue only ONE player has been a success and that player has even been injured longer than he has been available for selection.
his loan signings last year were shit and the current one aren’t event concerning themselves in glory.
his last transfer window was a complete shambles with none of the incoming permanent signings making us better in the positions they were bought.
Our goalkeeper is worse then de gea
our no.7 doesn’t give us the steel we need in midfield and isn’t better than our captains that occupies the same position and we can’t play then both.
our striker is young , raw and doesn’t score or create.

So while we have a big background issue with the ownership the manager is still spending and wasting the money he has been given.

Originally Posted by ryanMUFC

Not really, what the club has spent on players affects us for FFP. Having the Glazers in charge doesn’t excuse bad choices being made.

Maybe getting a sporting director is the way but we’ve had a lot of success over the years without one.

The manager has been picking his targets. You’d think he’d want at least 2 strikers with us resorting to Wout Weghorst last season yet we’re relying on Martial.

Yep and he ran out and bought mount.
Then knowing we need goals our main striker Should be a guaranteed bags man but he signed a raw teenager that score 9 goals in a top league.

Originally Posted by ryanMUFC

Not really, what the club has spent on players affects us for FFP. Having the Glazers in charge doesn’t excuse bad choices being made.

Maybe getting a sporting director is the way but we’ve had a lot of success over the years without one.

The manager has been picking his targets. You’d think he’d want at least 2 strikers with us resorting to Wout Weghorst last season yet we’re relying on Martial.

Ferguson didn’t need a sporting director per se, although Gill did a pretty good job. That worked in a different era. Do you not think the hierarchy above the manager is important, and even more so in the present day?

Odd to pick a loan he had to do to have a go at him for. Do you know that he didn’t want more attacking options in any of the last couple of windows? Or are you assuming based on what we have managed to recruit?*

*I know the answer to that.

Im sure you’ll get your wish anyway and we can see this process be repeated for the 6th time.

Originally Posted by History

We also had a pretty settled spine for most of the season until post league cup win

We had...Dea Gea...Varane..Martinez...Casemiro..Bruno...Rashfor d. For the most part it was rock solid. We've not had anywhere near the same continuity this season.

This is correct .. I think it flew under the radar just how good this spine was. A four-time European Cup winning centre back/DM pairing. Rashford on one of his goal scoring interval seasons. Bruno playing well. A genuinely world class spine.

Of this spine, DDG has gone (fine - most wanted it). Varane has been ostracised. Rashford, for whatever reason, has fallen out of form and been shunted around the pitch then dropped. Martinez’ form dropped off at the start of the season (May have been injuries; May have been second season syndrome) - more generally, I’d be concerned about how he plays when not next to Varane.

Bigger concern imho would be that Cas will need replacing (clearly) and if the Malen->Sancho talk is to be believed we’re still trapped in buying players ETH has worked with / has relationships with, which evidently will not work.

I'm a little confused. Are we suggesting that if we had a proper footballing structure above ten Hag he would have been told he cannot sign Antony and Onana because they're rubbish?

Originally Posted by RedNick80

Ferguson didn’t need a sporting director per se, although Gill did a pretty good job. That worked in a different era. Do you not think the hierarchy above the manager is important, and even more so in the present day?

Odd to pick a loan he had to do to have a go at him for. Do you know that he didn’t want more attacking options in any of the last couple of windows? Or are you assuming based on what we have managed to recruit?*

*I know the answer to that.

Im sure you’ll get your wish anyway and we can see this process be repeated for the 6th time.

Anticipated you bringing up Gill.

Do I know that he didn’t want attacking options? I know what positions he did ‘strengthen’.

I picked a loan signing because it was an area that he highlighted as an area for improvement and he signed one player in that position who is unproven.

My wish? I couldn’t care less who manages United but when you don’t hold people accountable for poor decisions, there’s no chance of improving.

Originally Posted by ryanMUFC

My wish? I couldn’t care less who manages United but when you don’t hold people accountable for poor decisions, there’s no chance of improving.

There is an element of contortionism (especially on internet discussion platforms) whereby for some reason people simply hate to admit they are wrong. This affects the lens through which the issue is viewed. Some have tied themselves so keenly to the Ten Hag wagon or have accumulated inherent biases on what they see as wrong with the squad that they do not want to let go.

I was fairly optimistic headed into this season. We had very straightforward early fixtures. I was concerned at our shocking goal scoring form last which was almost generationally bad for a top 4 team, and concerned Rashford may regress, but hopeful that Ten Hag knew what he was doing signing Mount for the Eriksen role. Also hopeful he’d identify a cf who could score, given the summer.

Instead the pattern of woeful goal scoring has only worsened. The Mount-for-Eriksen move has been a disaster that was written off basically after 2 games. Yet again he has bought a striker who cannot buy a goal in the English league. He sets the team up generally like Hodgson’s Crystal Palace with Bruno in the Eze role. We are on to score as few goals as ever since we were relegated.

Not at all bashful to say the summer optimism was misplaced and by every metric the manager is absolutely & utterly clueless.

Originally Posted by silv

The money he's spent he has largely wasted

Nobody was saying that last season. Nobody thought Varane, after being part of a brilliant defensive and trophy winning unit, would pipe up say he couldn't/won't play 2 games a week anymore. Onana was a Balon D'Or candidate and had a great season before we bought him. I'm not ditching Casemiro yet, after last season.

Mount is a very questionable buy. Antony is good and bad, jury out.

Problem is, EtH is doing this shit alone. Brighton, Villa, well EVERYONE else seems to have a structure where the manager has actual scouts with input and reports etc. It shouldn't come down to it being just the manager.

Originally Posted by Sheik JaBooty

I'm a little confused. Are we suggesting that if we had a proper footballing structure above ten Hag he would have been told he cannot sign Antony and Onana because they're rubbish?

Who thought Onana was shit last season?

Varane was Ole wasn’t he?

Few people doubted Onana tbf. Vids posted on here.

Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth

My reading of our situation:

1) horrific luck with injuries
2) horrific luck with rapey players and disciplinary issues
3) ongoing disruption from ownership/ceo changes etc
4) poor/diabolical signings and failure to address the weakest squad areas
5) lack of buy in to the tactics/training from senior players like Bruno and Rashford
6) disillusionment from the same players with the quality of player coming in
7) poor tactical set up and often poor in game management.
8) bad luck with var decisions.

Some issues are no one’s fault, some are the owners, some are the players and some are his.

Sacking him would be totally wrong at this stage. But he needs to deal with the issues he has control over pdq.

For eg, There’s probably justification for martial starting over Hoijlund on Saturday. But a few of those kind of decisions have to work out rather than totally £#%&!ing back fire.

A mauling at Liverpool and we could end up spiralling the wrong way…

Looks about right.

Sometimes players aren't able to step up from a poorer league, and I'm worried the same may apply to ten Hag. He's looked genuinely clueless far too often. But he's been dealt a poor hand.

Onana needs binning urgently imo. A shaky keeper spreads fear throughout the team, and he's quite simply a total £#%&!ing disaster.

Originally Posted by Gypsum Fantastic

Varane was Ole wasn’t he?

Few people doubted Onana tbf. Vids posted on here.

Course ffs

Originally Posted by RedNick80

Then up pops Jem thinking that playing Mainoo on Sat would solve all our issues.

not only did this never happen, but I have made very strong statements to the contrary.

playing mainoo and amrabat would give the team better balance than just playing one of them. other issues are addressed by other comments.

you are an idiot.