How Fletcher Can Bring down Barcelona

Originally Posted by Sparky***

I think it's not the scoreline but as you alluded to yourself, the comfortable nature of barcelona's win which was embarrassing for our club and a humbling way to be dethroned as champions of europe.

The first 9 minutes aside we never troubled them and that sucker punch from Eto'o was a blow we never got our heads round. Ronaldo, in particular was playing as much for his own ego that night as I've ever seen him. Shooting from ludicrous angles and distances. Being on the same pitch as messi seems to bring out the worst in him.

The 2 goals from a defensive point of view were horrific. For a team that went so long without conceding a goal that season, we gifted them 2 goals. First the Eto'o goal was a comprehensive defensive failure , iniesta travelling 30 yards with the ball at feet, fair walking past anderson and carrick. Then vidic allowing Eto'o to easily cut inside him and van der sar being done at his near post. A horror show.

The 2nd was almost comically bad, Eto'o breaks down the right, hit's a failed cross which anderson just hoofs away whilst under no pressure, xavi then picks it up 40 yards from goal, casually strolls forward into acres of space and crosses the ball straight to messi at the back post..who has lost both O'Shea and Ferdinand (both ball watching).

It was Evra not Anderson who £#%&!ed the clearance under no pressure.

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

Back to the question though, for me, our best hope is that fletch's gaunt grey lifeless complexion begins to draw the very life from the healthy continental glow of the sun tanned barcelonians. And when he's close enough, that his dry death like cold breath excorcises the very energy from their souls leaving them like spent wizened husks crying for their pretty glamorous lives.

It's what the jocks are best at.

FWIW, messi wasnt even the game. The header was really the only thing he did all game apart from blast a shot over. (of course a crucial thing, but he didnt really perform)

Iniesta was the one who gave the masterclass that night.

Originally Posted by Stickman

It was Evra not Anderson who £#%&!ed the clearance under no pressure.

Anderson got subbed at HT because he'd bottled it.

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

Back to the question though, for me, our best hope is that fletch's gaunt grey lifeless complexion begins to draw the very life from the healthy continental glow of the sun tanned barcelonians. And when he's close enough, that his dry death like cold breath excorcises the very energy from their souls leaving them like spent wizened husks crying for their pretty glamorous lives.

It's what the jocks are best at.

As a Jock I agree completly

anderson was undoubtedly a weak link that night, but you've also got to look at the rest of ferguson's team selection. part of the debate at the time was around whether giggs or berbatov would start. i for one thought that actually it should've been both. tevez' great energy in the 1-0 semi-final win was crucial, it seemed. but then he wasn't started either, with a patently unfit wayne rooney thrown in instead. fair enough if tevez was being left out because he was off, but then ferguson sent him on at half-time for some £#%&!ing reason...

anyway, the lesson is there for me, and it's that trying to combat barca's possession with high-octane pressing as high up the pitch as you can is fine. but you need craft and nous as well. it's probably fair enough to say that you can't start against them with all of scholes, giggs and berbatov. but they are the brains of the whole operation and for me we need at least two of them on the pitch as part of the front 6.

I say go mental.

Originally Posted by jem

I feel an "our worst team ever is better than your best team ever" banner would be in order.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

it's probably fair enough to say that you can't start against them with all of scholes, giggs and berbatov. but they are the brains of the whole operation and for me we need at least two of them on the pitch as part of the front 6.

berbatov at his best is an artist but i hope you're not suggesting he can run the game in the way that giggs and scholes can. completely different sort of player.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

anyway, the lesson is there for me, and it's that trying to combat barca's possession with high-octane pressing as high up the pitch as you can is fine. but you need craft and nous as well. it's probably fair enough to say that you can't start against them with all of scholes, giggs and berbatov. but they are the brains of the whole operation and for me we need at least two of them on the pitch as part of the front 6.

You can't start with Scholes and you can't start with Berbatov AND Rooney. You also can't run the risk of starting Giggs AND Scholes in case you need to change the 'guile' of the team at some point.

For me Giggs starts with the other 2 on the bench

You could argue that Scholes starts but I think that's too risky, imaginery card waving will go into overdrive from the first second

The big question for me is whether you start with Rooney AND Hernandez. The obvious issue is whether we have enough to stop their midfield with 4 players (maybe Rooney drops deep...) or whether Hernandez runs will force them to play deeper. I have no idea what the answer is to that tbf not a clue

Originally Posted by borsuk

berbatov at his best is an artist but i hope you're not suggesting he can run the game in the way that giggs and scholes can. completely different sort of player.

berbatov's a striker.

Originally Posted by Harri Jaffa

You can't start with Scholes and you can't start with Berbatov AND Rooney. You also can't run the risk of starting Giggs AND Scholes in case you need to change the 'guile' of the team at some point.

For me Giggs starts with the other 2 on the bench

You could argue that Scholes starts but I think that's too risky, imaginery card waving will go into overdrive from the first second

The big question for me is whether you start with Rooney AND Hernandez. The obvious issue is whether we have enough to stop their midfield with 4 players (maybe Rooney drops deep...) or whether Hernandez runs will force them to play deeper. I have no idea what the answer is to that tbf not a clue

i think hypothetical team sheets should take into account the notion that rooney might not start the game as well. the threat in behind from hernandez could be used alongside any three of giggs, valencia, park and nani. carrick is the screen, and scholes is the playmaker with Park and Giggs covering him. is it that bad an idea? really?

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

i think hypothetical team sheets should take into account the notion that rooney might not start the game as well. the threat in behind from hernandez could be used alongside any three of giggs, valencia, park and nani. carrick is the screen, and scholes is the playmaker with Park and Giggs covering him. is it that bad an idea? really?

It's not a bad idea at all

Won't happen, but I quite like it if i'm honest

I'd love to start the game with Nani, Valencia and Hernandez

Originally Posted by Harri Jaffa

It's not a bad idea at all

Won't happen, but I quite like it if i'm honest

I'd love to start the game with Nani, Valencia and Hernandez

wouldn't we all

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

wouldn't we all

So a possible front 6 of

Hernandez

Nani Valencia
Giggs/Rooney

Carrick Fletcher/Anderson


Could be a winner

Never going to happen

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

i think hypothetical team sheets should take into account the notion that rooney might not start the game as well. the threat in behind from hernandez could be used alongside any three of giggs, valencia, park and nani. carrick is the screen, and scholes is the playmaker with Park and Giggs covering him. is it that bad an idea? really?

but that would be pointless as rooney is among the 'first names on the list' if fit, along with VDS, rio and Vidic.

actually, says something about the team - for good or bad I don't know - that these are the only four you could bet your house on.

my worry though - as you mention - is that we will go for a pragmatic team, full of workers to stifle the threat, rather than take something of a gamble on creativity and the unexpected. this could see us including fletcher, despite not being fully match fit.

Rooney's definitely starting... he's the best footballer in the side, and because he's got everything he can play an effective role in various positions. If we're only playing one striker Fergie would want him up there. If we're playing two strikers we want him behind the other. He'll even play him wide if the tactics call for it.. but there's no chance he won't start.

The way to beat Barca isn't "to go at them" ffs. It's simply a fact that as a team they're miles better technically than our lads, and they will have most of the ball for 90 minutes. Their threats need to be neutralised and we need to have an effective counterattacking strategy. Discussion should start from there imo...

jose mourinho had the right idea for the most part. Don't go chasing the ball in barca's half of the pitch.

when they're doing that tippy tappy %@#$&!s from the goalkeepers to the centre backs, let them.

Just keep our shape and cut off the avenues for barca's defenders to get the ball to iniesta and xavi.

Originally Posted by Ole

It's simply a fact that as a team they're miles better technically than our lads

no idea what you mean by 'technically' tbh. assuming you mean in terms of ability to control the ball then it's rubbish.

vds or valdes?
rio and vidic or piquet or puyol?
carrick or busquets?
scholes and giggs or xavi and iniesta?
nani and valencia or villa and pedro?

no great differences there imo.

messi is exceptional, of course, but what makes barcelona impress so many people isn't the individual brilliance of their players - at least, no more than those of real madrid or united - but their style of play and, in particular how adept they are at retaining possession with short passing and movement. personally i think it's fairly tedious and overrated but irrespective of that, it's not some technical quality of individuals, it's coaching and organisation.

The skills that I refer to as "technical" isn't necessarily natural talent -- it is exactly the sort of thing that can be coached and learned, and what is taught at Barcelona from the earliest possible stage. You can't simply get any 10 footballers and say "keep the ball by doing loads of short passes and moving into the right spaces to receive them" and expect it to be done. It is a style of play, but it's learned over a long period, and it does make players better at controlling the ball and passing it in a single movement.

Their overall set-up of that style, the appropriate tactics, and the appropriate players, make for a superior footballing outfit than any other in the world today.. fact.

We've got the best defence in the world imo. There's no denying their natural talent though. Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets are much better than Scholes, Giggs and Carrick. Then there's Villa and Messi.

Don't get me wrong I hate the cheating @#%&!s.