Howard Webb to ref the Chelsea game

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

Oh, and I can only whinge about refs for so long. It's really small-time. We should've had a penalty in the last minute on Sunday......but we also should've played a helluva lot better (you know, something we can actually control) and deserved nothing from that game. Our performance and attitude lost us the game.

in a sense that's totally accurate. but on the other hand it's also ignoring a simple fact, which is that during this run-in chelsea have benefited to the tune of at least 6pts from match-winning decisions in their favour against us, wigan and spurs. they have also benefited from the fact that united didn't get any of what were actually 3 penalty claims at arsenal, one of which, in the last minute, was clear as day and probably cost us a point that would've changed the whole complexion of the title race.

in the same period i suppose you might call the penalty against upson a game-changer if you were pushing it. but then rooney got a two game ban that day as well. carragher did nani. vidic might've conceded a penalty but it was hardly obvious and united lost anyway. there were some decisions earlier in the season that went united's way. there were plenty that didn't as well. these key decisions in the final weeks are season-defining and it's daft to ignore them tbh. Leeds lost the league title to arsenal in 1971 because a coventry player was allowed to run through on goal and score when clearly yards offside. regardless of mistakes or decisions in any of the other 41 games it is that decision that coast them the title and allows history to say that arsenal won the double that year, matching spurs 1961 achievement. incidentally that vidic handball at arsenal (in a game arsenal won) is being given far more coverage than the tim breaker one at upton park in 1995 that was more obvious, just as effective, and cost united a penalty that would've wrapped up the title as it turned out.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

in a sense that's totally accurate. but on the other hand it's also ignoring a simple fact, which is that during this run-in chelsea have benefited to the tune of at least 6pts from match-winning decisions in their favour against us, wigan and spurs. they have also benefited from the fact that united didn't get any of what were actually 3 penalty claims at arsenal, one of which, in the last minute, was clear as day and probably cost us a point that would've changed the whole complexion of the title race.

in the same period i suppose you might call the penalty against upson a game-changer if you were pushing it. but then rooney got a two game ban that day as well. carragher did nani. vidic might've conceded a penalty but it was hardly obvious and united lost anyway. there were some decisions earlier in the season that went united's way. there were plenty that didn't as well. these key decisions in the final weeks are season-defining and it's daft to ignore them tbh. Leeds lost the league title to arsenal in 1971 because a coventry player was allowed to run through on goal and score when clearly yards offside. regardless of mistakes or decisions in any of the other 41 games it is that decision that coast them the title and allows history to say that arsenal won the double that year, matching spurs 1961 achievement. incidentally that vidic handball at arsenal (in a game arsenal won) is being given far more coverage than the tim breaker one at upton park in 1995 that was more obvious, just as effective, and cost united a penalty that would've wrapped up the title as it turned out.

In essence, I agree, and I'm not denying any of your post, but the fact that you've put a load that went against us and a load for it just shows how much they screw up - for and against us - and how it just ain't worth focussing on so much. I always look to focus on stuff within the club and factors we can control. I don't believe in the overall philosophy that 'these things even themselves out over a season' because often they don't. Maybe they even themselves out over a few seasons though. I think you can look back on some seasons where we got the breaks at the right time and others when we didn't. You need that to win things.

Ofcourse refs contribute massively to the success (or lack of) of a season and, when the margins are small, it can be the defining difference.....but that's just the way it goes. Refs will screw you. They screw everyone. It's part of the game. Luck and decisions play a huge role and there's nothing you can do about it, which I why I can only focus on it for so long before emphasising the more tangible elements of the game that we can control and that will hopefully overcome bad luck and bad decisions. We were shit on Sunday and that annoyed me far more than the Owen penalty incident. Chris Foy is a #@&%! with a whistle, I have no grand expectations of him, but I expect my team to show more character and produce a better performance then they did on Sunday to get to the point of needing a last minute penalty.

The sad thing is that Sunday will be all about the referee.

Originally Posted by Zorg

The sad thing is that Sunday will be all about the referee.

As long as we don't get beat I don't give a £#%&! tbh.

Originally Posted by dunk

As long as we don't get beat I don't give a £#%&! tbh.

Yes, fair point.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

in a sense that's totally accurate. but on the other hand it's also ignoring a simple fact, which is that during this run-in chelsea have benefited to the tune of at least 6pts from match-winning decisions in their favour against us, wigan and spurs. they have also benefited from the fact that united didn't get any of what were actually 3 penalty claims at arsenal, one of which, in the last minute, was clear as day and probably cost us a point that would've changed the whole complexion of the title race.

in the same period i suppose you might call the penalty against upson a game-changer if you were pushing it. but then rooney got a two game ban that day as well. carragher did nani. vidic might've conceded a penalty but it was hardly obvious and united lost anyway. there were some decisions earlier in the season that went united's way. there were plenty that didn't as well. these key decisions in the final weeks are season-defining and it's daft to ignore them tbh. Leeds lost the league title to arsenal in 1971 because a coventry player was allowed to run through on goal and score when clearly yards offside. regardless of mistakes or decisions in any of the other 41 games it is that decision that coast them the title and allows history to say that arsenal won the double that year, matching spurs 1961 achievement. incidentally that vidic handball at arsenal (in a game arsenal won) is being given far more coverage than the tim breaker one at upton park in 1995 that was more obvious, just as effective, and cost united a penalty that would've wrapped up the title as it turned out.

West Brom

It was their only away win of the whole season or something similarly ridiculous

Still, it was Leeds - so who cares??

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

In essence, I agree, and I'm not denying any of your post, but the fact that you've put a load that went against us and a load for it just shows how much they screw up - for and against us - and how it just ain't worth focussing on so much. I always look to focus on stuff within the club and factors we can control. I don't believe in the overall philosophy that 'these things even themselves out over a season' because often they don't. Maybe they even themselves out over a few seasons though. I think you can look back on some seasons where we got the breaks at the right time and others when we didn't. You need that to win things.

Ofcourse refs contribute massively to the success (or lack of) of a season and, when the margins are small, it can be the defining difference.....but that's just the way it goes. Refs will screw you. They screw everyone. It's part of the game. Luck and decisions play a huge role and there's nothing you can do about it, which I why I can only focus on it for so long before emphasising the more tangible elements of the game that we can control and that will hopefully overcome bad luck and bad decisions. We were shit on Sunday and that annoyed me far more than the Owen penalty incident. Chris Foy is a #@&%! with a whistle, I have no grand expectations of him, but I expect my team to show more character and produce a better performance then they did on Sunday to get to the point of needing a last minute penalty.

agreed. but still £#%&!ed off that everyone talks about andy cole's miss and not alan wilkie's cheating

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkRcCt1Ikag

Originally Posted by BryanRobson'sLiver

The media has started

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...v-Chelsea.html

i love reading the reader comments

Howard Webb...who has never awarded a penalty to a team playing Chelsea in the Premierleague. Hmm strangely nobody has managed to mention this. Like all things United, fingers in ears and eyes shut, lalalalalala united get all the decisions etc etc etc

then immediately after

Why do all united fans appear to be so blinkered and stupid?

it's funny because it's mental

rawk will be spewing

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...d-webb-chelsea

Webb has awarded United a penalty in three of the past four games he has officiated at Old Trafford and Ferguson made a point of talking up the Yorkshireman. "He's definitely the best referee in the country, there's no doubt about that. We are getting the best referee and we hope it's our turn for a little bit of luck."

that said, all this means we'll get £#%&!-all out of him tomorrow