Giggs - "I don't think there's enough British managers at the moment,"

And yet Gary Neville can get a job managing a top spanish side.

Weird.

Typical nonsense avoiding the real issue of lack of innovation and ideas within the English game.

Most top managers don't start off with big jobs, regardless of whether they were a great player or not. Take a look at Ancelotti and Conte. Both high class players in Italian football who won the lot. Both started managing in Serie B with Reggiana and Arezzo respectively.

The path for someone like Giggs is pretty easy if they want to put the work in. Or indeed have anything about them as a prospective high quality coach. The sense of entitlement would be easier to understand if he resembled either.

We could argue till the cows come home on how a manager should get a top job..
Paisley, Dalglish, the guy Voeller spat on, Gaurdiola, Zidane, Berkenbauker, Croyf..etc etc

the bottom line is .. dont come into something successful and make dramatic changes to the backbone that Moyes did..Biggest £#%&!up since Tiberius taking over from Augustus

Originally Posted by Part 36 Offer

Some of the comments relating to giggs on this forum are shameful.

Absolutely embarrassing. He's the biggest legend the club has ever had in terms of a player. Usual #@&%!heads spouting the same shite...

Is it really shameful to have the opinion that Ryan Giggs shouldn't just walk into the United managerial position? Let's be honest here. Every United fan would love to see Giggs manage United and be successful and I'm pretty sure those that run the club would love it to happen. But surely he has got to go and prove himself a manager first? If he was serious about being a manager he'd be desperate to get a job at any club in the football league to test all those ideas he has swimming around in his head about how the game should be played.

Let me ask you this. Do you believe that Giggs could have gone into the Hull job and within a couple of weeks transform the way they play?

Originally Posted by Billy Redface

What's to say it wouldn't offer a pathway to a bigger job?

The fact the the only examples people could come up with were a Scottish second/third division team from 40 years ago or Italian/Portuguese lower league teams?

Most people on here couldn't name 5 third tier managers, it is demonstrably not a route to Premier League football. Absolutely no-one thinks Giggs should walk into a top job as evidenced by the suicidal nature of the forum when it looked like he might succeed LVG last season. But when Owen Coyle is on his third Championship job and walked into a Premier League job offer it's not too hard to see why Giggs might think he's better qualified.

Siders' point about innovation within the English game is a good one, from memory England national team failure has been followed by a rush to copy Clairefontaine, then the German model of collaboration between its main football organisations and then the Spanish model of passing it about a lot. It is no surprise whatsoever that with utterly clueless leadership at the top, hi FA, that the rest of the pyramid suffers.

Originally Posted by Chris Quayd

The fact the the only examples people could come up with were a Scottish second/third division team from 40 years ago or Italian/Portuguese lower league teams?

Most people on here couldn't name 5 third tier managers, it is demonstrably not a route to Premier League football. Absolutely no-one thinks Giggs should walk into a top job as evidenced by the suicidal nature of the forum when it looked like he might succeed LVG last season. But when Owen Coyle is on his third Championship job and walked into a Premier League job offer it's not too hard to see why Giggs might think he's better qualified.

Siders' point about innovation within the English game is a good one, from memory England national team failure has been followed by a rush to copy Clairefontaine, then the German model of collaboration between its main football organisations and then the Spanish model of passing it about a lot. It is no surprise whatsoever that with utterly clueless leadership at the top, hi FA, that the rest of the pyramid suffers.

Based on what, though? His name? Has there been any buzz about Giggs as a coach? Word gets about and he had three years on the staff at United. Surely by now he should be getting a bit of a rep as someone with a few ideas under his belt?

For me it's rubbish to suggest that football chairmen wouldn't rather have a British manager. I just think the harsh reality these days is that managers from Germany, Portugal etc are simply more impressive. They're better trained, more adaptable to the globalised modern game and probably offer a more interesting vision to clubs. Besides, Liverpool, City, Spurs, United, Newcastle, West Ham, Sunderland etc have all given the job to British candidates in recent years. In the Championship, so have Leeds, Wolves, Aston Villa etc - the biggest clubs.

They get the chances; the desire and market for bright young British coaches is there imo. But is the quality?

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Based on what, though? His name? Has there been any buzz about Giggs as a coach? Word gets about and he had three years on the staff at United. Surely by now he should be getting a bit of a rep as someone with a few ideas under his belt?

For me it's rubbish to suggest that football chairmen wouldn't rather have a British manager. I just think the harsh reality these days is that managers from Germany, Portugal etc are simply more impressive. They're better trained, more adaptable to the globalised modern game and probably offer a more interesting vision to clubs. Besides, Liverpool, City, Spurs, United, Newcastle, West Ham, Sunderland etc have all given the job to British candidates in recent years. In the Championship, so have Leeds, Wolves, Aston Villa etc - the biggest clubs.

They get the chances; the desire and market for bright young British coaches is there imo. But is the quality?

Based on the fact Owen Coyle is rewarded for consistent failure as are plenty of other British managers. It's clearly not a meritocracy and there is no magic formula for picking the right manager, Zidane wasn't pulling up trees at Castilla but he was given the toughest job in the world and succeeded. Giggs has played, coached, was assistant manager to one of the great managers of the last 20 years and was interim manager all at one of the top clubs in the world, other than leading Fleetwood to a League One trophy what other qualifications does he need to land a job at Swansea?

Originally Posted by Chris Quayd

Based on the fact Owen Coyle is rewarded for consistent failure as are plenty of other British managers. It's clearly not a meritocracy and there is no magic formula for picking the right manager, Zidane wasn't pulling up trees at Castilla but he was given the toughest job in the world and succeeded. Giggs has played, coached, was assistant manager to one of the great managers of the last 20 years and was interim manager all at one of the top clubs in the world, other than leading Fleetwood to a League One trophy what other qualifications does he need to land a job at Swansea?

Well, he needs some ideas, surely? From what I can gather he's only really been linked with jobs in Wales. Is this a man with a clear set of ideas and principles that he's taking to every Championship club where a vacancy appears? Or does he quite fancy the two Welsh clubs and not much else, having set his heart on United. Is he desperate to be a manager, or just keen to be United manager?

Zidane is a bit of an odd case as it's not clear whether there was much logic in identifying him, given that Perez - who knows £#%&! all about football - always fancied him as manager purely on sentimental grounds. But usually the great managers start of anywhere that will take them, such is their belief in their idea. Many of the best around had to start low.

I find it impossible to believe that Giggs, armed with a serious vision and applying throughout the Championship, doesn't get a chance.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Well, he needs some ideas, surely? From what I can gather he's only really been linked with jobs in Wales. Is this a man with a clear set of ideas and principles that he's taking to every Championship club where a vacancy appears? Or does he quite fancy the two Welsh clubs and not much else, having set his heart on United. Is he desperate to be a manager, or just keen to be United manager?

Zidane is a bit of an odd case as it's not clear whether there was much logic in identifying him, given that Perez - who knows £#%&! all about football - always fancied him as manager purely on sentimental grounds. But usually the great managers start of anywhere that will take them, such is their belief in their idea. Many of the best around had to start low.

I find it impossible to believe that Giggs, armed with a serious vision and applying throughout the Championship, doesn't get a chance.

I'm sure he has ideas but there's no point putting together a DIY philosophy if he is looking for a first job at any one of 24 completely different Championship clubs. He's always been a hard person to figure out and the chances are he won't go on to be a top manager but he has more than enough experience to be offered a half decent job imo.

Originally Posted by VodkaAndCoke

Is it really shameful to have the opinion that Ryan Giggs shouldn't just walk into the United managerial position? Let's be honest here. Every United fan would love to see Giggs manage United and be successful and I'm pretty sure those that run the club would love it to happen. But surely he has got to go and prove himself a manager first? If he was serious about being a manager he'd be desperate to get a job at any club in the football league to test all those ideas he has swimming around in his head about how the game should be played.

Let me ask you this. Do you believe that Giggs could have gone into the Hull job and within a couple of weeks transform the way they play?

That wasn't what I was referring to. It's just the general way he is talked about like he is generally clueless when it comes to footballing matters despite being the most decorated player in the history of the game

For the record, I didn't want him to talk over at united either but it's just the derogatory way he is referred to on here that I find rather laughable.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

you're the one saying he shouldn't but that he's had "plenty of opportunities"... what opportunities has he had?

what do you think his level is? top half of division 3? any team in division 4? non-league with the part time plumbers and postmen?

No I didn't. I said there are opportunities. You're the one who seems to have separated out the top two divisions. Why? Is the 3rd and 4th tier not an option for him?

I have no idea what his level is. That isn't the point. The point was that there are positions opening up at a lower level on a regular basis. I find it hard to believe those clubs wouldn't take a chance on Ryan Giggs. If he doesn't want to do that and wait for a bigger job then that's fine. But don't then say there aren't any jobs out there.

Is going from the bottom up the only way? No. But it is a way. Do some British managers get more chances than others? Yes (Owen Coyle a good example).

There are several examples of successful foreign and English managers doing well and doing badly across the leagues. Back to the original point, I don't think it's particularly biased towards foreign managers

And I don't think anyone is having a go at Giggs personally. Just that he isn't entitled to anything simply because he's Ryan Giggs.

Are people on here really expecting Giggs to start off managing a Doncaster or Barnet to earn his stripes?

His standing and experience in the game alone should guarantee him top half of the championship at the minimum, especially if you see management as much more than coaching the lads on a Tuesday night.

After his final match in charge, a 1–1 draw with Southampton, Giggs admitted to breaking down in tears, in part due to the pressure of managing United, and also said he had struggled to sleep during the period

Imagine him in a cup semi final ffs

the whole conversation is hilarious, ranging from we haven't heard any circumstantial about him being a good coach ( which is wrong anyway) to he should hawk himself around and go wherever they'll have him ( which is patently ridiculous)...

the reality is you cannot guarantee success but you can try and avoid setting yourself up to fail. giggs is right to make sure he interviews any club he's interested in, that he gets the assurances he needs and that he has the best chance to succeed.

if he doesn't get a foot in then may e look at a different approach down the linr if he still wants to do it.

Originally Posted by TheFatGoth

Imagine him in a cup semi final ffs

or just watch the videos.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

the whole conversation is hilarious, ranging from we haven't heard any circumstantial about him being a good coach ( which is wrong anyway) to he should hawk himself around and go wherever they'll have him ( which is patently ridiculous)...

the reality is you cannot guarantee success but you can try and avoid setting yourself up to fail. giggs is right to make sure he interviews any club he's interested in, that he gets the assurances he needs and that he has the best chance to succeed.

if he doesn't get a foot in then may e look at a different approach down the linr if he still wants to do it.



or just watch the videos.

....to isolating the top two divisions for some reasons....

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

the whole conversation is hilarious, ranging from we haven't heard any circumstantial about him being a good coach ( which is wrong anyway) to he should hawk himself around and go wherever they'll have him ( which is patently ridiculous)...

the reality is you cannot guarantee success but you can try and avoid setting yourself up to fail. giggs is right to make sure he interviews any club he's interested in, that he gets the assurances he needs and that he has the best chance to succeed.

if he doesn't get a foot in then may e look at a different approach down the linr if he still wants to do it.
.

OGS agrees with this.

Originally Posted by Billy Redface

....to isolating the top two divisions for some reasons....

i haven't isolated anything you plum

you said he has had "plenty of opportunities".

you clearly don't have much of a list of opportunities he's had at the top 40 odd clubs (whichever ones YOU think they might be) or at the clubs in the top 2 divisions. so maybe give me a list of the plenty of opportunities he's had at clubs in division 3 and 4? look forward to your exhaustive list of almost zero clubs.

Next Wigan manager. Stays on here. Completely made up obvs.

Originally Posted by Chris Quayd

I'm sure he has ideas but there's no point putting together a DIY philosophy if he is looking for a first job at any one of 24 completely different Championship clubs. He's always been a hard person to figure out and the chances are he won't go on to be a top manager but he has more than enough experience to be offered a half decent job imo.

I would say there's every point. What do we think got guys like Wagner the job at Huddersfield when nobody had heard of him? I expect he demonstrated a vision which the club were taken by.

Like I say, it's what serious managers tend to do. They'll go anywhere that lets them try their ideas and build. There are enough good clubs in the Championship to allow for that. Antonio Conte went and took over Avezzo who were battling relegation to Serie C. A battle they lost under his guidance btw.

The sheer quantity of decent sized clubs in this country is something for which the likes of Giggs should be grateful. Rather than develop a sense of entitlement because he's not walking into his ideal job based on his name alone.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I would say there's every point. What do we think got guys like Wagner the job at Huddersfield when nobody had heard of him? I expect he demonstrated a vision which the club were taken by.

Like I say, it's what serious managers tend to do. They'll go anywhere that lets them try their ideas and build. There are enough good clubs in the Championship to allow for that. Antonio Conte went and took over Avezzo who were battling relegation to Serie C. A battle they lost under his guidance btw.

The sheer quantity of decent sized clubs in this country is something for which the likes of Giggs should be grateful. Rather than develop a sense of entitlement because he's not walking into his ideal job based on his name alone.

do you think he ought to do his best to stop people accusing him of that even if they're just pulling it out of their arses?