Keano a bit bitter

Originally Posted by borsuk

it just sounds like generalised whinging from a player who was a great player but who you could hardly say ever put the team ahead of himself.

very harsh especially considering Juve 99, very few players would have been able to produce a performance like that considering the circumstances.

Keane did get himself many times and it did cost us on the odd occassion, but that was Keane and he repayed us many times over.

Some players are beyond criticism from United fans, don't think I've ever seen anyone criticise Eric for costing us a double in 95

Can you imagine if Keane had done what Eric did!

Originally Posted by Firswood Red

Some players are beyond criticism from United fans, don't think I've ever seen anyone criticise Eric for costing us a double in 95

Plenty have. I normally do it when some @#%&! blames Andy Cole for us not winning the league.



God I love Andrew Cole :swoon:

Originally Posted by Father Christmas

He was rubbish for at least 3 of those years so should consider himself fortunate.

Look beyond your hatred of the Irish before you make that comment, Keane has done more for Manchester United than 99% of the players over the past 10 years, short memories by ignorant dim witted morons, you being the best example of that.

Originally Posted by Buckwheat

Juventus away 99

Indeed.

Originally Posted by borsuk

t just sounds like generalised whinging from a player who was a great player but who you could hardly say ever put the team ahead of himself.

Utter %@#$&!s. I'm not sure what that even means

Originally Posted by Kim Jong-il

He's a @#%&!.

So are you. Evens things out in the end.

Originally Posted by hughes......oh i say!

why say it? it seems our roy is always saying something in the press. he was fond of opening his gob when he was playing.

Perhaps the idea of press conferences escapes. you. Or are you really £#%&!ing thick?

Originally Posted by Ether

Utter %@#$&!s. I'm not sure what that even means

well there's a logical thing to say.

Originally Posted by borsuk

see, i've never really understood the thinking there. great performance - one of the best i've ever seen - but the suspension didn't have anything to do with it. i mean, what do you expect him to do? down tools and say '£#%&! you all'? a great performance, sure, but no element of sacrifice there as far as i can see.

compare that to ole. here's a guy who could well have got mightily £#%&!ed off at how few starts he got and yet was happy to play the role that he did for the good of the club. well paid and all that, of course, but he could have been as well or better paid elsewhere. but playing for manchester united, even from the bench, was more important to him than playing for somebody else in the first eleven.

Comparing the contribution of Keane and Solskjaer is shameful in itself to be honest. And no, i'm not irish. :shakehead:

Originally Posted by borsuk

well there's a logical thing to say.

Can you clarify what your definition of 'putting the team ahead of himself' would be. Thx. I tink this should be good for a laugh.

It's very easy to call it "whining" when it isn't your life. Keane is talking about things that happened to HIM, not to me or you. If he's being honest and was lied to, then it isn't being bitter or whining, it's just him telling his side of the story.

Originally Posted by Grimson

It's very easy to call it "whining" when it isn't your life. Keane is talking about things that happened to HIM, not to me or you. If he's being honest and was lied to, then it isn't being bitter or whining, it's just him telling his side of the story.

That's the way I read it too.

Originally Posted by Crumps

Think the thing that probably pissed me off the most was (as captain of the football club) openly slagging off teammates when he was one of the worst culprits for sub standard performances at the time. Haven't been a fan of his at all since really although I did enjoy his pointing/shouting that shit Vieria right up.

Shit like the Haaland thing was bang out of order in retrospect especially when you consider the fact the only reason he was on the ground injured in the first place was he did his own knee in when tried to kick Haaland.

Not actually @#%&!ting Shearer or McAteer properly despite all the posturing too was really £#%&!ing gay.

He was on the wane at that stage , constantly trying to push a body onwards that was refusing. Not really his fault , and given his intensity it probably wound him up seeing guys who had the time and the fitness go out and turn in sub par performances. It was also an in house analysis , not like he ran to the press.

Yeah , crocking himself over a complete Hen Headed @#%&! like Haaland was stupid but we've always known Keane was a niggly @#%&! his entire career....just didn't come off for him that time.

Should have @#%&!ted shearer I agree.......but he had matured to a certain extent by then and there was intervention.

He's just a surly bastard who sees things one way.......his. He also lives inside his own world .......if you or I worked with him we would undoubtedly consider him a @#%&!. Saying that though he does have a sarkey, droll sense of humor which I appreciate

If you turn it on its head a bit...

he's probably one of the only ex-United players who I don't mind saying what he feels. I doubt he'll ever knock himself off the pedestal he put himself on (for me) during his playing days.

I'd rather have 100 outspoken Roy Keanes than most of the premiership players/managers.

Originally Posted by Coracao

Comparing the contribution of Keane and Solskjaer is shameful in itself to be honest. And no, i'm not irish. :shakehead:

why so? (the shamedful bit, no need to go into your ancestry).

Originally Posted by Ether

Can you clarify what your definition of 'putting the team ahead of himself' would be. Thx. I tink this should be good for a laugh.

doing sth for the team which requires a sacrifice - you do sth which means that you, personally, are worse off so that the team is better off. hth.

could you clarify why you needed this defining? seems a pretty straightforward concept to me.

Originally Posted by borsuk

doing sth for the team which requires a sacrifice - you do sth which means that you, personally, are worse off so that the team is better off. hth.

could you clarify why you needed this defining? seems a pretty straightforward concept to me.

Maybe examples of other players who have done it? Ole doesn't work, it's not like he chose to be a substitute. He merely accepted his role. I don't see that as sacrificial, just because he happened to be very good at that role and some people - obviously not Fergie - interpreted it to mean he should start ahead of the equally proven goalscorers in the team.

Originally Posted by Grimson

Maybe examples of other players who have done it? Ole doesn't work, it's not like he chose to be a substitute. He merely accepted his role. I don't see that as sacrificial, just because he happened to be very good at that role and some people - obviously not Fergie - interpreted it to mean he should start ahead of the equally proven goalscorers in the team.

i disagree. he was willing to accept the role rather than kicking up a fuss or making public demands. he came out against the takeover when the easier path would have been to keep quiet or support it. in his entire career he played for the team, even taking a red for the good of the team - in contrast to keane, who took a red for his own reasons, to the detriment of the team.

look, i'm not anti-keane. i don't dislike the guy as crumps seems to. i think he speaks his mind and has some interesting things to say. but i distinguish between his making a good point with broader relevance (prawn sandwiches, players as pieces of meat, too much money too young) and simply whining about personal things when, if we're really honest, life has dealt him a pretty good hand. his comments on 12 or 11 years etc don't seem to serve a broader purpose. they're just whining imo.

fergie's certainly no different. he's come out with lots of good things, intelligent and perceptive comments. he's also come out with some pretty unworthy comments on strachan and kidd, for example. and i'm similarly critical of those comments.

Originally Posted by borsuk

i disagree. he was willing to accept the role rather than kicking up a fuss or making public demands. To me that's just self-preservation. If he had kicked up a fuss, Fergie would have found him a new home. I think ultimately he knew Fergie was right to use him mostly from the bench. he came out against the takeover when the easier path would have been to keep quiet or support it. A nice sentiment, but irrelevant to a player's actual job. in his entire career he played for the team, even taking a red for the good of the team I loved that moment, but it's overrated - he actually caught up to him and could have attempted a proper tackle, he just made up his mind far too early to go for the professional foul- in contrast to keane, who took a red for his own reasons, to the detriment of the team.That I would agree with - Keano did indulge his red mist too often

I know you don't hate Keane, but still, this idea of players who 'sacrifice' themselves for the good of the club doesn't sit with me. As you can see I'm not convinced by the Ole examples, but even if I were, who are the others? How can we criticise Keane for not 'sacrificing' himself when almost no other player does?

Originally Posted by Grimson

I know you don't hate Keane, but still, this idea of players who 'sacrifice' themselves for the good of the club doesn't sit with me. As you can see I'm not convinced by the Ole examples, but even if I were, who are the others? How can we criticise Keane for not 'sacrificing' himself when almost no other player does?

i'm not criticising keane for that. i don't expect that. but his performance in turin in '99 is often - as in this thread several times already, as in paper after paper - referred to as some kind of ultimate sacrifice: in spite of the yellow card/suspension he produced a selfless performance etc. it's a myth - not the performance, of course, which was, as i said, one of the best i've ever seen, but the selfless sacrifice angle. i mean, what was he supposed to do? how was he being selfless? out of the final, give your all now.

keane is both an intelligent, perceptive and courageous man, able and willing to comment on difficult issues in the game, and a stubborn, self-centred and rash man, capable of putting himself ahead of the team and carrying (real or imagined) grudges. quite like fergie, of course. when he makes perceptive comments which say something interesting about the state of the game (corporate fans, the bentley culture, players as pieces of meat, hypocritical managers talking about referees etc.) than all power to him. when he whines about being personally badly treated (12 and a half, 11 and a half) then he deserves all he gets. just like fergie, of course.

Love the idea of Keane sacrificing himself for United. Like when he threatened to leave unless he was given a contract guaranteed to always match that of the highest paid player?