Worried about the debt at United ? What are YOU going to do about it?

Originally Posted by BarryX

Did anyone go to that MUST/IMUSA meeting yesterday, or have any feedback on it ?

Last night, as I was dozing off, I came up a great idea..

Yeah. I somehow managed to get myself on the steering committee, i'll prob do a thread at some point to get some ideas off here.


There was a lot of ideas floating about - the more popular ones seemed to involve some sort of protest at the Milan home game - maybe a 5 minute walk out during the game at some point.

There's no easy way to hit the glazers financially as not enough people would be involved - either through a lack of understanding, not wanting to or just plain not caring.

A point I made was that there's not really one central place to get all the info from - they (IMUSA/MUST) are setting up a single website where hopefully people can get all the info available about the debt, the glazers etc and it will also have details of protests/meetings etc.


A lot of people seemed to be of the opinion that just spend as little as possible if you still go to the games. Since the major protest when they took over there's been a lot of apathy creeping in but hopefully with these new figures out, no one can really dispute the horrific financial situation the club is in. Since everyone can be agreed there is a problem, it's now what you do about it that counts.

Personally i'm of the opinion it just needs to be a constant barrage of protest etc - good to see the LUHG banner at the game yesterday. The guy who got gripped for it got told he was having his ST taken off him and banned from the ground


We really need major mobilisation on every front. I don't want to start an FC debate but really, given the fact that club was set up as a protest against the glazers, the regulars to FC should also be getting involved. Again, just my personal opinion. Personal and past differences have to be set aside if the fans are to have any chance of getting rid of the glazers.


Another issue for me is what happens once they're gone? What's this really about - is it about the fans running the club? Or would people just be happy for some dude with a huge wedge running it - is it about getting a few new players and continued success, or is it about trying to reclaim some of the club for ourselves?


This all has to be decided IMO before the protests really get going. Hence the setup of a single website and forum is a good idea.

Originally Posted by bigMikeA

We really need major mobilisation on every front. I don't want to start an FC debate but really, given the fact that club was set up as a protest against the glazers, the regulars to FC should also be getting involved.

We are. There's a thread on the FC forum about it.

However, some people are worried we'd be accused of just trying to drum up support for FC, whilst at the same time being accused of not protesting enough.

Originally Posted by Zorg

We are. There's a thread on the FC forum about it.

However, some people are worried we'd be accused of just trying to drum up support for FC, whilst at the same time being accused of not protesting enough.

Understandable some feel that way. I think all Reds, whether boycotting or not, have to remain 'United' and vent their aggression at those that deserve it - the @#%&!s destroying our club. One of the worst results of the takeover was the division it caused in our support. All the sniping, name calling and other bullshit that's resulted has to stop. These wounds have to be healed if we're to achieve anything.

Obviously I sincerely hope that any future supporter action is succesful but I can't help feeling it's going to be much more difficult this time round and, ultimately, we failed last time.

I think everybody needs to focus on what the objectives and implications are from any action.

For me, last time, it was fairly simple. If we could destroy confidence by the financial institutions that we would go along like sheep then we could make it downright difficult, if not impossible, for Glazer to get his funding. That was the whole point of the protest action for me, when I chanted 'not for sale' I meant it and if we could really make the the banks believe that a majority of us were not for sale, we could scupper the plan.

Unfortunately, the failure last time weakens the position this time and plenty will think it's just a load of 'hot air' that will come to nowt based on last time.

The implication of any action at this point in time is that it may well (if succesful) destroy the confidence of any potential investors in Glazers's bond scheme. People need to be clear about the implications of that and if they think that's a good thing or bad thing. I sense there isn't universal acceptance that it is a bad thing from a lot of supporters if it gives Ferie a few quid to spend.

Originally Posted by Zorg

We are. There's a thread on the FC forum about it.

However, some people are worried we'd be accused of just trying to drum up support for FC, whilst at the same time being accused of not protesting enough.

Originally Posted by The Watcher

Understandable some feel that way. I think all Reds, whether boycotting or not, have to remain 'United' and vent their aggression at those that deserve it - the @#%&!s destroying our club. One of the worst results of the takeover was the division it caused in our support. All the sniping, name calling and other bullshit that's resulted has to stop. These wounds have to be healed if we're to achieve anything.

Agreed on both counts. As watcher says, anyone getting involved in petty name calling at this stage needs to give their head a wobble.

Thanks for the heads up Big Mikey.

I will read your other thread and give my ideas some more thought.

I agree totally about the point you raised about what it is, exactly, we as a collective of supporters want to see happen if the Glazers were to sell. Another PLC ? A rich consortium ? A sugar Daddy of some sort ??

Borsuk put it more concisley than I ever could, the other day, in his post about such ownership issue's as being football's problem as a whole. If we were to get a new mega rich owner who was spending like a bitter sheik, then no doubt we would be happy in the short term but surely we just add to the problem as a whole, in the long run.

However, whilst the likes of Chelsea, City and Real Madrid continue to have some sort of control over the value of the world's top players, it is pretty clear Fergie's hands are tied in terms of what we can spend to improve the team. Whatever the alternative is I sure as hell hope it happens sooner rather than later....

Originally Posted by BarryX

Thanks for the heads up Big Mikey.

I will read your other thread and give my ideas some more thought.

I agree totally about the point you raised about what it is, exactly, we as a collective of supporters want to see happen if the Glazers were to sell. Another PLC ? A rich consortium ? A sugar Daddy of some sort ??

Borsuk put it more concisley than I ever could, the other day, in his post about such ownership issue's as being football's problem as a whole. If we were to get a new mega rich owner who was spending like a bitter sheik, then no doubt we would be happy in the short term but surely we just add to the problem as a whole, in the long run.

However, whilst the likes of Chelsea, City and Real Madrid continue to have some sort of control over the value of the world's top players, it is pretty clear Fergie's hands are tied in terms of what we can spend to improve the team. Whatever the alternative is I sure as hell hope it happens sooner rather than later....

I'm not 100% myself about what I'd want if there was a choice. I suppose the 'ideal' is the barca situation - pretty much owned by the fans but also with a strong board and great success on the pitch. Do we really want to be a city or chelsea with just shitloads of cash to burn?

For me this has to be decided first... but then, is it more important just to get the £#%&!ers out and sort that out later?


Plan for the worst, hope for the best is my way of thinking

Originally Posted by bigMikeA

I'm not 100% myself about what I'd want if there was a choice. I suppose the 'ideal' is the barca situation - pretty much owned by the fans but also with a strong board and great success on the pitch. Do we really want to be a city or chelsea with just shitloads of cash to burn?

For me this has to be decided first... but then, is it more important just to get the £#%&!ers out and sort that out later?


Plan for the worst, hope for the best is my way of thinking

just getting rid of the debt is the major step, our club is capable of standing on its own two feet once that happens so an investor like ambramavic wouldn't be as threatening to us. The 1.1 billion pounds that is being mentioned is going to be a huge problem unless the club is bought by a committee of investors.

as i said the other day in a few posts in this thread, trying to solve this at the level of one football club is hopeless. legally, the glazers have done nothing wrong. legally, united is a business. legally, if it goes bust it's just another bankrupt business.

it needs organised campaigning and a lot of staying power. protests to keep it in the public eye are important, as are any and all contacts with the media which can be arranged or exploited. but there has to be a focus, as mike said. just banging your fist on the table and shouting 'it can't be like this' gets you nowhere.

the starting point has to be platini's suggestions ('financial fair play') because they are (1) sensible and well thought out (2) serious and backed by a body with weight and the ability to implement them (3) already supported by many inside the game, in the uk and overseas.

the goal should be to pressure relevant bodies to support the proposals. once they come in all clubs will have to break even - which means the glazers would be forced to reduce the debt level/debt repayments, because otherwise the club would be operating at a loss (as it would have been this year without the ronaldo transfer). how they do this is up to them: putting their own money in , finding an investor from outside, selling up, refloating the club on the stock exchange etc.

which relevant bodies? the three main political parties (as i said, i have written to these and will post their replies when i have all three) and the fa are the key ones.

what can we do? every single individual who cares about this (as opposed to simply whining about it on here) should devote a small amount of time every week to exerting some pressure on the various bodies.

1. write to your mp. write every week, then reply to any replies you get. be polite but make it clear that 'if it's a good idea then we'll support it' (which is the reply they'll give you) is not an acceptable commitment. ask for a clear commitment to support the reforms, then ask what they will do to help bring them about.

2. find out when your mp has his or her surgery and arrange a meeting. again, be polite but be clear that you recognise vague blather for what it is. any promise or commitment they make you should write down and keep - if they say they'll make a decision at a certain time (after i've read them in detail/following the publication of something) then note it down and go back to see them when the condition is fulfilled.

3. do both of the above repeatedly. sending a letter/email is easy. it takes twenty minutes at most. it really is nothing of a sacrifice. and the effect of every mp getting a hundred emails/letters/phone calls/meetings a month should not be underestimated. these people work for us. they will not make any decisions unless they are pressured, because if you make no decisions then you upset nobody

4. contact the fa (i will do this today) and get an official position on platini's proposals. then write to them repeatedly pressuring them to support (if they don't) or more actively support them.

5. write a petition and publicise it on every football forum and outside every ground you can. as the number of signatories grows we can refer to it in the campaign. i can do this once i get the replies to my initial letters.


the goal is to create sufficient pressure that the fa and the main parties all support the financial fair play proposals. it is a realistic goal that will go a long way towards stopping the glazers (and others) from exploiting our club and other clubs in the way they have thus far.

http://www.starhawk.org/activism/198ways.html

People who are hoping for a walk out in the Milan game are kidding themselves. We couldn't get people to miss a West Brom game, they won't walk out of the Milan game.

The thing we need is numbers. If the people who have been buying tickets and renewing season tickets stopped we'd have a chance. No point talking about protests if you're not giving up your tickets, it's all just hot air and you're exacerbating the problem, not helping.

The bottom line with the Glazers is if you're not helping us rid the club of them, you're helping keep them there. It's a case of with us or against us, waiting and seeing has been tried and has failed. It's interesting to see some of the people who argued against Glazer protests are on this thread moaning that something needs to be done. As the title of the thread says, what are you going to do.

with the biggest intention being the 'not one penny' suggestion surely the T.O is a priority for some sort of demonstration? its always busy for spares.

Originally Posted by Spiffy

People who are hoping for a walk out in the Milan game are kidding themselves. We couldn't get people to miss a West Brom game, they won't walk out of the Milan game.

The thing we need is numbers. If the people who have been buying tickets and renewing season tickets stopped we'd have a chance. No point talking about protests if you're not giving up your tickets, it's all just hot air and you're exacerbating the problem, not helping.

The bottom line with the Glazers is if you're not helping us rid the club of them, you're helping keep them there. It's a case of with us or against us, waiting and seeing has been tried and has failed. It's interesting to see some of the people who argued against Glazer protests are on this thread moaning that something needs to be done. As the title of the thread says, what are you going to do.

There are people who would still snap up the season tickets/ match tickets. Always someone else to take your place unfortunately.

Originally Posted by Wez

There are people who would still snap up the season tickets/ match tickets. Always someone else to take your place unfortunately.

True.

A mass walk out for a big Euro tie is a good idea, but 75% of our supporrt wouldn't have a £#%&!ing clue and probably think the Glazers are superb owners.

Originally Posted by Wez

There are people who would still snap up the season tickets/ match tickets. Always someone else to take your place unfortunately.

True, but only to an extent. Lots of matches have been on open sale this season.

They key to the boycott is not just walking out and keeping quiet, but publicising it too. Telling people that you're boycotting and why, in the hope that they'd join in. Of course, I've done this and got a load of abuse in return, but I still tell them.

If a boycott was organised, it would have to be tailored to the Mega@#%&! Lemmings. Maybe it would need leaflets explaining that if they don't join the boycott, they may not even have a club to go and watch in silence any more, and even if they did, it would be one with a shit team in the third division. They need to be shown that actually, it does affect them, the Glazers don't have the money and are leeching the club dry. They might wake up to it, especially with all the media coverage of it in the last two weeks. Even the most £#%&!witted of reindeer-antler-wearing numpty has surely picked up on this and thought 'oh dear'. Even if it's just because United can't afford Carlos van der Kickaball, even if they're only thinking of United not being able to buy some overrated foreigners, so be it. I'm thinking of the French Resistance - lots of disparate groups who had little in common under normal circumstances, but who had a common enemy so worked together. If we could get the average match-going 'footy fan' onside you just never know.

Maybe it's a pipe dream but I remain convinced that rows of empty seats are the only thing the Glazers would give a shit about.

Originally Posted by Wez

There are people who would still snap up the season tickets/ match tickets. Always someone else to take your place unfortunately.

Not sure that's 100% true now.

Have they actually sold out any game in advance this season? & when was the last time we played anybody in a semi final never mind City & tickets for kids have been reduced to £10.

It'll be interested to see how many they get for the City game when there is not auto ticket scheme to inflate the attendence figures.

I also think that this summer will see a lot more people not renewing in the light of events on & off the field especially if todays News of the World story of an 11%+ increase is true.

Originally Posted by Zorg

True, but only to an extent. Lots of matches have been on open sale this season.

They key to the boycott is not just walking out and keeping quiet, but publicising it too. Telling people that you're boycotting and why, in the hope that they'd join in. Of course, I've done this and got a load of abuse in return, but I still tell them.

If a boycott was organised, it would have to be tailored to the Mega@#%&! Lemmings. Maybe it would need leaflets explaining that if they don't join the boycott, they may not even have a club to go and watch in silence any more, and even if they did, it would be one with a shit team in the third division. They need to be shown that actually, it does affect them, the Glazers don't have the money and are leeching the club dry. They might wake up to it, especially with all the media coverage of it in the last two weeks. Even the most £#%&!witted of reindeer-antler-wearing numpty has surely picked up on this and thought 'oh dear'. Even if it's just because United can't afford Carlos van der Kickaball, even if they're only thinking of United not being able to buy some overrated foreigners, so be it. I'm thinking of the French Resistance - lots of disparate groups who had little in common under normal circumstances, but who had a common enemy so worked together. If we could get the average match-going 'footy fan' onside you just never know.

Maybe it's a pipe dream but I remain convinced that rows of empty seats are the only thing the Glazers would give a shit about.

Originally Posted by LaPaz

Not sure that's 100% true now.

Have they actually sold out any game in advance this season? & when was the last time we played anybody in a semi final never mind City & tickets for kids have been reduced to £10.

It'll be interested to see how many they get for the City game when there is not auto ticket scheme to inflate the attendence figures.

I also think that this summer will see a lot more people not renewing in the light of events on & off the field especially if todays News of the World story of an 11%+ increase is true.

I go back to my original point, people will still buy the tickets; the attendance as per the link below states the average gate is just below 75,000

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/a...type=4&cc=5739

I'm still a season ticket holder and the price increase, as per the press today, would probaly price me out.
But as I mentioned there will be someone there to take up my seat

Originally Posted by Wez

There are people who would still snap up the season tickets/ match tickets. Always someone else to take your place unfortunately.

That's what people said originally, should we just not even try then? Some of those who said that last time have now been priced out and they can't afford to take their kids to the game so we're potentially losing a generation of United fans.

If you want to say there's no point fine, but don't get all high and mighty about the Glazers, you lose your right to complain about them because it's people just like you who allowed the Glazers in in the first place and it's people just like you who are keeping them there.

Originally Posted by Wez

I go back to my original point, people will still buy the tickets; the attendance as per the link below states the average gate is just below 75,000

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/a...type=4&cc=5739

I'm still a season ticket holder and the price increase, as per the press today, would probaly price me out.
But as I mentioned there will be someone there to take up my seat

If you look at the previous years it's slightly down & the figures only reflect PL attendendences.

At the start of the last two or three seasons ST's have effectively been on open sale, there always used to be a waiting list but not any more & the situation will get worse.

IMO if United hadn't won the PL for each of the last 3 seasons then the drop off in support would have been much more evident & if the don't win it again this season then I believe the attendence will drop by may be 5000 a game next season (obviously they willl still sell the big games).

"I've decided i'm going to stop lining the glazer's pockets and finally end my sky tv subscription."

TSV, May 2015