Everton deducted 10 points

Originally Posted by Chris Quayd

You are absolutely all over the place and most of your points are either wrong or a contradiction of what you have previously strongly implied. For starters Everton fans welcomed Moshiri in with open arms and he has invested huge sums of money including on a new stadium. That he has spent it very badly is not something that the Premier League or anybody else could reasonably have foreseen.

Even their recent protests over the last year or so have been against the board more than the ownership, they despised Kenwright for what they perceived as meddling in football issues and for bizarre statements attacking the fans. They wanted Moshiri to replace the board, not be replaced.

The only point you managed to get right is that Everton fans have a right to feel aggrieved for what seems like a disproportionate punishment by the Premier League but if you did a bit more research then you'd know that 777 Partners are an even worse ownership group than Moshiri and that there is a good chance they won't be approved as owners due to both a lack of funds and not meeting the very low bar for the Owners & Directors' Test.

Are you alright?

My point was broadly about the Premier League, how they're useless, corrupt and how their fit and proper ownership test is £#%&!ing worthless, and it's the fans that suffer as a result. It was not a point about the sale of Everton the club. You seem to have latched onto that part of my post and ran a mile with it in the wrong direction.

Although it's probably worth mentioning that my inlaws are lifelong match going Evertonians, with some of them working within the club itself, or have a history of working within the club. I'm not sure how strong the Everton fan base is in Florida, but from what I have heard from fans that go to the games and work in the club over the past couple of years is that they've not been happy with Moshiri and Kenwright, and the general direction of the club, despite the promise of a new stadium that most have been worried would never end up being finished and plunge the club into an even bigger financial crises. They're also not happy about the prospect of the new owners, but the fact that they're not kicking up a big stink over the sale of a club to an unknown US investment firm does put some perspective on what they think of the ownership under Moshiri, doesn't it?

If you want to tell me what Evertonians think of the club from over 4000 miles away then crack on, but I am going to ignore it for obvious reasons.

Originally Posted by Dueling Banjos

I thang yew.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

Are you alright?

My point was broadly about the Premier League, how they're useless, corrupt and how their fit and proper ownership test is £#%&!ing worthless, and it's the fans that suffer as a result. It was not a point about the sale of Everton the club. You seem to have latched onto that part of my post and ran a mile with it in the wrong direction.

Although it's probably worth mentioning that my inlaws are lifelong match going Evertonians, with some of them working within the club itself, or have a history of working within the club. I'm not sure how strong the Everton fan base is in Florida, but from what I have heard from fans that go to the games and work in the club over the past couple of years is that they've not been happy with Moshiri and Kenwright, and the general direction of the club, despite the promise of a new stadium that most have been worried would never end up being finished and plunge the club into an even bigger financial crises. They're also not happy about the prospect of the new owners, but the fact that they're not kicking up a big stink over the sale of a club to an unknown US investment firm does put some perspective on what they think of the ownership under Moshiri, doesn't it?

If you want to tell me what Evertonians think of the club from over 4000 miles away then crack on, but I am going to ignore it for obvious reasons.

It's absolutely impossible to debate with you as you fail to back up your points then move the goalposts when challenged. That you are citing the fact that I moved to a different country to negate my points which were correct vs your points which despite having Evertonian inlaws were incorrect says a lot. Have a good Thanksgiving pal

Originally Posted by Patty_b

Are you alright?

My point was broadly about the Premier League, how they're useless, corrupt and how their fit and proper ownership test is £#%&!ing worthless, and it's the fans that suffer as a result. It was not a point about the sale of Everton the club. You seem to have latched onto that part of my post and ran a mile with it in the wrong direction.

Although it's probably worth mentioning that my inlaws are lifelong match going Evertonians, with some of them working within the club itself, or have a history of working within the club. I'm not sure how strong the Everton fan base is in Florida, but from what I have heard from fans that go to the games and work in the club over the past couple of years is that they've not been happy with Moshiri and Kenwright, and the general direction of the club, despite the promise of a new stadium that most have been worried would never end up being finished and plunge the club into an even bigger financial crises. They're also not happy about the prospect of the new owners, but the fact that they're not kicking up a big stink over the sale of a club to an unknown US investment firm does put some perspective on what they think of the ownership under Moshiri, doesn't it?

If you want to tell me what Evertonians think of the club from over 4000 miles away then crack on, but I am going to ignore it for obvious reasons.

Move over Dr City, Toffee B has entered the room

Originally Posted by Chris Quayd

It's absolutely impossible to debate with you as you fail to back up your points then move the goalposts when challenged. That you are citing the fact that I moved to a different country to negate my points which were correct vs your points which despite having Evertonian inlaws were incorrect says a lot. Have a good Thanksgiving pal

The only point you've raised is that the sale of the club isn't ratified. Which like I said, wasn't even the point of my initial post to begin with, but one you have picked up on and ran a mile in the wrong direction. In regards to the fans feeling towards the ownership, I have backed up my points, I know these things from real life conversations with real match going Everton fans and people employed by the club. Conversation which included complaints and concerns about his ownership going back a couple of years.

If you cannot accept that there's only so much information you can gleam from googling stuff 4000 miles away, and that someone else with real life connections to the club and it's fans might have more experience with fan sentiment, then that's your problem, not mine.

Don't burn the Turkey.

Originally Posted by Ethers

Move over Dr City, Toffee B has entered the room

Oohh, obligatory Ned smiley post incoming in 3...2...1...

Originally Posted by Patty_b

Are you alright?

My point was broadly about the Premier League, how they're useless, corrupt and how their fit and proper ownership test is £#%&!ing worthless, and it's the fans that suffer as a result. It was not a point about the sale of Everton the club. You seem to have latched onto that part of my post and ran a mile with it in the wrong direction.

Although it's probably worth mentioning that my inlaws are lifelong match going Evertonians, with some of them working within the club itself, or have a history of working within the club. I'm not sure how strong the Everton fan base is in Florida, but from what I have heard from fans that go to the games and work in the club over the past couple of years is that they've not been happy with Moshiri and Kenwright, and the general direction of the club, despite the promise of a new stadium that most have been worried would never end up being finished and plunge the club into an even bigger financial crises. They're also not happy about the prospect of the new owners, but the fact that they're not kicking up a big stink over the sale of a club to an unknown US investment firm does put some perspective on what they think of the ownership under Moshiri, doesn't it?

If you want to tell me what Evertonians think of the club from over 4000 miles away then crack on, but I am going to ignore it for obvious reasons.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

The only point you've raised is that the sale of the club isn't ratified. Which like I said, wasn't even the point of my initial post to begin with, but one you have picked up on and ran a mile in the wrong direction. In regards to the fans feeling towards the ownership, I have backed up my points, I know these things from real life conversations with real match going Everton fans and people employed by the club. Conversation which included complaints and concerns about his ownership going back a couple of years.

If you cannot accept that there's only so much information you can gleam from googling stuff 4000 miles away, and that someone else with real life connections to the club and it's fans might have more experience with fan sentiment, then that's your problem, not mine.

Don't burn the Turkey.



Oohh, obligatory Ned smiley post incoming in 3...2...1...

Do you not think you’re coming across as ever so slightly biased towards Everton’s plight?

You suggested it’s unfair to punish Everton because they might be getting different owners to the ones responsible for the issues that have caused them to get convicted. But what about the other clubs that have suffered as a result of Everton spending beyond their means, and their fans?

Originally Posted by Ethers

Do you not think you’re coming across as ever so slightly biased towards Everton’s plight?

You suggested it’s unfair to punish Everton because they might be getting different owners to the ones responsible for the issues that have caused them to get convicted. But what about the other clubs that have suffered as a result of Everton spending beyond their means, and their fans?

This is the point isn’t it. Hence them getting sued by other clubs.

I don’t think ‘it’s unfair on the fans’ is much of an argument, because how would clubs ever be punished for wrongdoing?

You could say it’s unfair on Barnsley fans they’ve been kicked out of the Cup, as it’s not their fault the club fielded an ineligible player.

Originally Posted by Ethers

Do you not think you’re coming across as ever so slightly biased towards Everton’s plight?

I'd feel for any fans of clubs in the same situation. They're club has been run badly and the fans haven't been happy about it for a while.

Originally Posted by Ethers

You suggested it’s unfair to punish Everton because they might be getting different owners to the ones responsible for the issues that have caused them to get convicted.

I didn't suggest this. I don't think that they shouldn't be punished just because the owner has changed. What's unfair is that owners can get the clubs in a state where they're breaking Premier League rules while being financially £#%&!ed and fighting relegation battles while building a new stadium, and then just hand it off to next bunch of bandits or chancers while it's the fans and communities built around the club that suffer from shit ownership being allowed to buy clubs.

Originally Posted by Ethers

But what about the other clubs that have suffered as a result of Everton spending beyond their means, and their fans?

The club should be punished for breaking the rules, I've not said they shouldn't be. I've not been displaying any sympathy for the 'club' other than the punishment is harsh, I've been sympathising with the fans that are pissed off. And it's because the punishment is extremely harsh; Everton fully cooperated with the investigation and never tried to slow it down through the courts. And they're slapped with the biggest ever punishment set by the Premier League. The same Premier League that are willing to turn a blind eye to state ownership of clubs and other breaches when it's profitable for them. Hence why Everton fans are targeting the Premier League and calling them 'corrupt'. Because lets face it, they are.

United fans have been pissed off for years with how the Premier League has turned a blind eye to the likes of City, imagine if we were then given the Premier Leagues biggest ever punishment because our @#%&! owners £#%&!ed up our spending? I'd be pissed off at them too.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

I'd feel for any fans of clubs in the same situation. They're club has been run badly and the fans haven't been happy about it for a while.


I didn't suggest this. I don't think that they shouldn't be punished just because the owner has changed. What's unfair is that owners can get the clubs in a state where they're breaking Premier League rules while being financially £#%&!ed and fighting relegation battles while building a new stadium, and then just hand it off to next bunch of bandits or chancers while it's the fans and communities built around the club that suffer from shit ownership being allowed to buy clubs.



The club should be punished for breaking the rules, I've not said they shouldn't be. I've not been displaying any sympathy for the 'club' other than the punishment is harsh, I've been sympathising with the fans that are pissed off. And it's because the punishment is extremely harsh; Everton fully cooperated with the investigation and never tried to slow it down through the courts. And they're slapped with the biggest ever punishment set by the Premier League. The same Premier League that are willing to turn a blind eye to state ownership of clubs and other breaches when it's profitable for them. Hence why Everton fans are targeting the Premier League and calling them 'corrupt'. Because lets face it, they are.

United fans have been pissed off for years with how the Premier League has turned a blind eye to the likes of City, imagine if we were then given the Premier Leagues biggest ever punishment because our @#%&! owners £#%&!ed up our spending? I'd be pissed off at them too.

Okay, fair enough, you didn’t suggest that.

I read this

“Can fully understand Evertonians anger at this, it was their previous ownership that has got them in this £#%&!ed up position, the same ownership that a lot of Everton fans have been protesting against for years. Then the owner that got them into this mess flogged the club to an investment firm and £#%&!ed off before this punishment hit. What £#%&!ing good does that do?”

And it feels like you don’t agree with them being punished, but that could just have been my reading of it.

I don’t see how they can complain about the punishment tbh. If they’re guilty, which they’ve admitted, then they surely need to recognise that without breaking the rules, they’d more than likely have been relegated? How is a 10 point deduction unduly harsh when you look at the advantage they’ve gained through breaking the rules?

Originally Posted by Ethers

Okay, fair enough, you didn’t suggest that.

I read this

“Can fully understand Evertonians anger at this, it was their previous ownership that has got them in this £#%&!ed up position, the same ownership that a lot of Everton fans have been protesting against for years. Then the owner that got them into this mess flogged the club to an investment firm and £#%&!ed off before this punishment hit. What £#%&!ing good does that do?”

And it feels like you don’t agree with them being punished, but that could just have been my reading of it.

I don’t see how they can complain about the punishment tbh. If they’re guilty, which they’ve admitted, then they surely need to recognise that without breaking the rules, they’d more than likely have been relegated? How is a 10 point deduction unduly harsh when you look at the advantage they’ve gained through breaking the rules?

They lost 19.5m more than they were allowed to over the course of the season, I don't know, it just seems a bit harsh. But I suppose you could equate it to being no different to a team spending more than they should and then winning the league, instead of avoiding promotion. And I couldn't argue with that comparison tbh. I suppose it is no different.

But from a fan perspective, it does feel as though the Premier League are happy to jump on and make an example of smaller clubs that are already struggling financially under piss poor ownership, making their situation even more dire. All while twiddling their thumbs when it comes to clubs that break the same rules but are backed by oil states and reckless billionaires, and their armies of lawyers.

Not to forget that all this started because Leeds asked the Premier League to investigate it. If that doesn't change some opinions, I don't know what will.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

They lost 19.5m more than they were allowed to over the course of the season, I don't know, it just seems a bit harsh. But I suppose you could equate it to being no different to a team spending more than they should and then winning the league, instead of avoiding promotion. And I couldn't argue with that comparison tbh. I suppose it is no different.

But from a fan perspective, it does feel as though the Premier League are happy to jump on and make an example of smaller clubs that are already struggling financially under piss poor ownership, making their situation even more dire. All while twiddling their thumbs when it comes to clubs that break the same rules but are backed by oil states and reckless billionaires, and their armies of lawyers.

Not to forget that all this started because Leeds asked the Premier League to investigate it. If that doesn't change some opinions, I don't know what will.

Wasn't it Portsmouth who had 2 or 3 successive dodgy £#%&!ers owning them? They went from winning the FA Cup to going into administration, multiple relegations, bankruptcy, massive debts?

Of course, none of those owners were flagged as not being fit and/or proper.

Originally Posted by Fat Al

Wasn't it Portsmouth who had 2 or 3 successive dodgy £#%&!ers owning them? They went from winning the FA Cup to going into administration, multiple relegations, bankruptcy, massive debts?

Of course, none of those owners were flagged as not being fit and/or proper.

Yeah, they got a point deduction as well, although think they would've gone down regardless.

Pts deduction to Everton is completely reasonable. The only difference between Everton & City/Chelsea, really, is that Everton had an inept football recruitment structure underpinning it all. Their fans were gagging for the owners when they first started flashing the cash.

£200 million on Iwobi, Bolasie, Mina, Sigurdsson, Michael Keane & Cenk Tosun FFS.

Everton completely aimed to play the system. Just because they're comically inept does not absolve them of responsibility & need for punishment.

Yaaaay! Utd are now being mentioned in connection with this. Everton fans not happy (were they ever?) that Utd & Wolves were found guilty & fined by UEFA of some financial %@#$&!s but weren't investigated by the PL.

In July, United were fined £257,000 for breaking financial regulations between 2019 and 2022. In 2020, Wolves were fined £175,000 for similar breaches.

£20,000,000 fine incoming, 175 point deduction & lifetime ban for Evra.

Originally Posted by Ethers

Do you not think you’re coming across as ever so slightly biased towards Everton’s plight?

You suggested it’s unfair to punish Everton because they might be getting different owners to the ones responsible for the issues that have caused them to get convicted. But what about the other clubs that have suffered as a result of Everton spending beyond their means, and their fans?

I take it you are refering to the like's of Southampton Burnley 2021 Leeds & Leicester last season & their is a simple answer to that if they put-in the same effort to their other 36 games as they put into their 2 Cup Finals so against our lads then they would'nt have been anywere near the relegation places & so they have only got themselves to blame for their respective plight's!

Originally Posted by Gordon Hill

I take it you are refering to the like's of Southampton Burnley 2021 Leeds & Leicester last season & their is a simple answer to that if they put-in the same effort to their other 36 games as they put into their 2 Cup Finals so against our lads then they would'nt have been anywere near the relegation places & so they have only got themselves to blame for their respective plight's!

Erm, ok.

Originally Posted by Gordon Hill

I take it you are refering to the like's of Southampton Burnley 2021 Leeds & Leicester last season & their is a simple answer to that if they put-in the same effort to their other 36 games as they put into their 2 Cup Finals so against our lads then they would'nt have been anywere near the relegation places & so they have only got themselves to blame for their respective plight's!

Gordon, do you have the full run through of teams who only try against man united?

Originally Posted by pedr0

Gordon, do you have the full run through of teams who only try against man united?

If you have been watching football all of these years you will know that every single team put's in a darnsight more effort against our lads than they would against any other team!