an even harder one...who will history remember as the better player? ronaldo or giggs?

Originally Posted by marlo

as things stand,

as things stand, Giggs.. there's no question about that.. achievements have to be part of any overall verdict.. if you're looking at ability alone then maybe Ronaldo, but then you open the doors to all kinds of other underachievers.. having said that, Giggs is no slouch even when it comes to ability.

I personally can't see Ronaldo ending up being considered in the same company as Pele and Maradona..

..for a start, I genuinely believe we've had his best years. Sure he'll rise to the occasion every now and then for the blinkered to state "told you so" but I think he'll be considered more in the same sphere as his namesake "Fat" Ronaldo.

If he keeps wearing boots two sizes too small for him and having his toenails removed he'll be lucky if he's playing beyond 30 nevermind maintaining a world class standard.

Originally Posted by marlo

its a lot closer than that.
ronaldo is already up there with pele and 'big m-dona-

Absolute nonsense.. there's a huge gulf between Pele, Maradona and the Ronaldo.

Nothing to do with footballing ability, it's to do with producing the goods when it really counts.

Pele won 3 World Cups over a period of 12 years, Maradona almost won the 1986 world cup on his own.. Maradona galvanised a reasonable Napoli side to become Serie A Champions in what was unquestionably the best league in the world.. pipping probably the best club side of the last 25 years, AC Milan.

As it stands now giggs, but who knows if ronnie keeps up his standards for another 5 seasons then obviously that will change, but in terms of excitement and thrills the teenager giggs shits on most players and that includes ronnie.

Originally Posted by Fountz

Absolute nonsense.. there's a huge gulf between Pele, Maradona and the Ronaldo.

Nothing to do with footballing ability, it's to do with producing the goods when it really counts.

Pele won 3 World Cups over a period of 12 years, Maradona almost won the 1986 world cup on his own.. Maradona galvanised a reasonable Napoli side to become Serie A Champions in what was unquestionably the best league in the world.. pipping probably the best club side of the last 25 years, AC Milan.

2 wasn't it, he played one match in chile 62 and got injured and missed the rest of the tournament, but i totally agree with your point, maradona and pele are a country mile ahead of the likes of kaka and ronaldo.

Ronaldo's spell at Real will define how history sees him imo.
He's been hampered by injuries so far so we'll see, but a couple of European Cup wins with those @#%&!s and maybe he could be considered in the top ten ever.

Originally Posted by marlo

this is good. sparking a decent footballing debate on a football forum.

for me i think ronaldo will be remembered as the most complete footballer in the world but experianced football fans will say giggs.

but in 100 years when both sets of fans are dead.who will be remembered as the bette® player?

im going with ronaldo due to the fact he is the best player most of us have ever seen play live (and that includes giggs)

We'll be dead? or will have an opinion because we've seen him live?

In 100 years it will come down to trophies won on various stages. With a get out clause for Ronaldo of "potential" if he dosnt make Giggs' score. And a get out for Giggs's on the world stage playing for Wales.

Nani.

I voted for Giggs but I didn't understand the question.

Originally Posted by Switching Off

Nani.

im sure it will be ronaldo amongst non-united fans and even some united fans

giggs really struggled to be as famous elswhere in the world because he didnt get to do much on the international stage.

i bet most players that have played against them both would be split, due to them probably respecting giggs more as he has a more professional attitude on the pitch towards team mates and opponents.

but for me it will be giggs even though it was a joy to watch ronaldo playing and he was a great player for us however not a legend.

Originally Posted by dunk

A lad I know is well into his football, got his FA coaching badges, not far off being a professional player himself and knows a fair few, has been telling me for 5 years now that Ronaldo will be 1/4 the player he is now by the time he is 28. He always said he would start picking up injuries in his early to mid twenties which would eventually affect his pace and power, and he hasn't enough other things to his game to be able to cope with losing any of that ability. It's an interesting point. Everything he does tends to be about pace and power, very little about finesse.

It remains to be seen, usually when stars burn as bright as Ronaldo has, they burn out pretty fast, which just makes Giggs' achievements all the more impressive.

Could not disagree more.

If they were both being compared at their very peak, for a place in a one off dream team, it is indeed a very very tough call. I would give Ronaldo the edge, just - I really think he is the most skillfull player I have ever seen, and has/had so much to his game. The way he puts the swerve on a dead ball, the variety of tricks, his speed, physical stregnth...all of them as good as I have ever seen..two true footballing greats and an honour to have watched them play for our club...

Of course, Giggs is a bigger Utd legend, and will rightly be regarded as the clubs greatest servant, at least right next to the likes of Bobby Charlton. I prefer Giggs, but the better player, at least on his day, would probably be CR7.

Originally Posted by Sloane

im sure it will be ronaldo amongst non-united fans and even some united fans

giggs really struggled to be as famous elswhere in the world because he didnt get to do much on the international stage.

i bet most players that have played against them both would be split, due to them probably respecting giggs more as he has a more professional attitude on the pitch towards team mates and opponents.

but for me it will be giggs even though it was a joy to watch ronaldo playing and he was a great player for us however not a legend.

Fair points. In the modern era I think Raul, Maldini and Giggs stand alone. One club men who've won everything there is to win, highly respected by their peers and in an elite group of three. Of course, on pure ability, ronaldo may be better than all of them, as might Scholes and a number of other players, but those three will remain legends for life.

Originally Posted by redmike

2 wasn't it, he played one match in chile 62 and got injured and missed the rest of the tournament, but i totally agree with your point, maradona and pele are a country mile ahead of the likes of kaka and ronaldo.

You're right !!

Just checked my Brian Glanville World Cup book.

Never realised Pele didn't actually play in the final..

Incidentally, Glanville's take on the 1954 World Cup is just superb. It's an absolute travesty that that Hungarian side didn't get to hoist the Jules Rimet. A genuine travesty, not in the same way that perhaps Brazil in 82 should've won or that Holland should've bagged one.. West Germany cynically just kicked the £#%&! out of Hungarian's best players in the early group stages. Puskas, the best player in the world at that point wasn't the same for the rest of the tournament.

Having said that I've always respected the German's ability to get the job done.

Originally Posted by marlo

im going with ronaldo due to the fact he is the best player most of us have ever seen play live (and that includes giggs)

A fair few of us have seen Maradona, Zidane and more recently Fat Ronaldo.

Originally Posted by Fountz

A fair few of us have seen Maradona, Zidane and more recently Fat Ronaldo.

as a kid growing up, fat ronaldo was the one i would watch over and over again and try to be like

Originally Posted by Fountz

A fair few of us have seen Maradona, Zidane and more recently Fat Ronaldo.

at their peaks...fat ronaldo or young ronaldo.

im going with young ronaldo.
people don't realise how good the lad is because its still 'his time'
easily the most talented player in the last 10 years.

there has probably not been a player since fat ronaldo with the penetration of ronaldo; his combination of pace, power and finishing ability is astonishing. on his day he can take teams apart by himself. but to get the best out of him he needs a team constructed to give him the right platform - as fletcher points out in the interview today. that's not a criticism in any way, btw, just a reflection of the kind of player he is. messi is similar in that regard, which is why he's twice the player for barca that he is for argentina.


giggs is a much more rounded footballer than ronaldo is and probably will ever be. his intelligence and vision are no less special than ronaldo's pace and power and giggs is able to perform in many more roles, with far greater tactical awareness and defensive ability. this is one of the reasons behind his extraordinary longevity.


who is better? if you had a mullar or fat ronaldo in your team you might prefer giggs; if you had a didi or a robson you might want ronaldo.


who will history remember? history is generally written these days by the media and the media love preening superstars. a pout and a strop in the right place get you as much renown as a stunning goal these days. if he maintains his form, ronaldo will be a much bigger star than giggs. but that's a completely different question from who is better.


the best footballer of all time is probably lew yashin imo. generally, defensive players like beckenbauer, zito and so on deserve as much consideration as pele, maradona and so on but they don't get it.

Originally Posted by marlo

at their peaks...fat ronaldo or young ronaldo.

im going with young ronaldo.

Fat Ronaldo.. certainly during his Barcelona years.. who incidentally had him for his best years, which kind of reinforces my point, that we may have seen the best of Ronaldo already !

Originally Posted by marlo

people don't realise how good the lad is because its still 'his time'
easily the most talented player in the last 10 years.

You may have a point, 10 years ago Fat Ronaldo had already reached his peak. I also happen to think Zidane was a far more complete player than young Ronaldo will ever be.

Originally Posted by Sloane

as a kid growing up, fat ronaldo was the one i would watch over and over again and try to be like

Judging by your pic you've suceeded in one respect.