Are we back?

Originally Posted by Jan Kubis

Utter %@#$&!s.

Why?

The break *did* come at almost the worst possible moment, and the last few refs *have* been biased against us.

As I said earlier though, no excuse.

Watford could have been 2 up by the time the ref £#%&!ed that decision.

City should have been 4 or 5 up.

It's basically irrelevant

Unless all our international players £#%&!ed off to the twilight zone for their matches paying any heed to the 'break' as a problem is completely £#%&!ing stupid. As is blaming referees. We had luck today, Ighalo missed a sitter. We had luck last week for our goal and De Bruyne's shot dancing along the goal-line and not going in.

The players are perfectly capable too. Danny Drinkwater and Robert Huth won the £#%&!ing league with Leicester last season ffs. Crystal Palace and WBA can score 4 goals in a match with ease.

We're just devoid of any confidence or aggression. Tactically we're a mess. Nobody seems to know their roles inside out. Everyone looks confused when they get the ball. Other teams have players drilled to play on some sort of instinct. £#%&! knows what ours are told. It's a vicious circle hesitate -> lose -> hesitate more. We've been doing it for three years now. £#%&! knows how we won a cup final.

Northampton must be erect atm. If you had to pick any English team to play at the moment it would be United. Been like that for a while.

Got no answers but constantly making changes be it managers, new players, formations or starting XIs makes things worse. Get a good £#%&!ing plan and stick to it come what may.

Originally Posted by Ethers

Watford could have been 2 up by the time the ref £#%&!ed that decision.

City should have been 4 or 5 up.

It's basically irrelevant

not really.
You can have a good moan about decisions as well as your own teams performance.

In our last 2 games we've been on the end of a couple of shockers that significantly affected the result.

It was a foul today on Martial. The defender went through the man to get a toe on the ball + It was a pen & red card in the derby last week. Not even marginal.
We slot that pen away & have half an hour against ten men.
Changes everything.

That's not saying they cost us the game, it's just calling what you see.

No

Oh, we're back all right. It's like Van Gaal never left.

Originally Posted by MJ Ramone

not really.
You can have a good moan about decisions as well as your own teams performance.

In our last 2 games we've been on the end of a couple of shockers that significantly affected the result.

It was a foul today on Martial. The defender went through the man to get a toe on the ball + It was a pen & red card in the derby last week. Not even marginal.
We slot that pen away & have half an hour against ten men.
Changes everything.

That's not saying they cost us the game, it's just calling what you see.

Today's was marginal. I think it was a foul, but I honestly think it could have gone either way. I just don't gravitate towards blaming refs. Particularly when we play badly. I'm more concerned as to why anthony martial is arsing about with the ball in the left back spot, with two players breathing down his neck, seconds before he had a chance to release the ball in a much better position.

We also could have conceded a penalty today too. Fellaini tugging away on deeney. If Mike dean was reffing....

The city one was a bad one last week. No excusing that from the ref. But hey, it happens. We've also had a de bruyne shot roll along our own goal line, an open goal missed against us today. Moments of good fortune that we failed to capitalise on......and the far bigger and more pertinent issue is that we were shit this week, shit last week and we deserved £#%&! all from either game.

the thing with that penalty v city is that if Rooney hadn't hesitated initially then he would have got to it first easily - and then fallen over and let it dribble out for a goal kick. ;-}

Originally Posted by Billy Redface

Today's was marginal. I think it was a foul, but I honestly think it could have gone either way. I just don't gravitate towards blaming refs. Particularly when we play badly. I'm more concerned as to why anthony martial is arsing about with the ball in the left back spot, with two players breathing down his neck, seconds before he had a chance to release the ball in a much better position.

We also could have conceded a penalty today too. Fellaini tugging away on deeney. If Mike dean was reffing....

The city one was a bad one last week. No excusing that from the ref. But hey, it happens. We've also had a de bruyne shot roll along our own goal line, an open goal missed against us today. Moments of good fortune that we failed to capitalise on......and the far bigger and more pertinent issue is that we were shit this week, shit last week and we deserved £#%&! all from either game.

a bad Refereeing decision isn't a moment of good or bad fortune though.
It's not like I'm talking about a marginal offside call or a throw-in for them when they clearly had the last touch or whatever.
The 'no penalty' decision against City was both inexcusable & it directly affected the result.

I know we're all incredibly self aware @#%&!s on here & we slag off our own team to high heaven but I like to moan about Refs too because they're £#%&!ing @#%&!s who play to the ABU galleries & listen to Talksport Phone-Ins.

Originally Posted by MJ Ramone

a bad Refereeing decision isn't a moment of good or bad fortune though.
It's not like I'm talking about a marginal offside call or a throw-in for them when they clearly had the last touch or whatever.
The 'no penalty' decision against City was both inexcusable & it directly affected the result.

I know we're all incredibly self aware @#%&!s on here & we slag off our own team to high heaven but I like to moan about Refs too because they're £#%&!ing @#%&!s who play to the ABU galleries & listen to Talksport Phone-Ins.

Pen against City, Offside for the goal in the week, tackle on Martial yesterday..

Non should be defining, they don't half erode the confidence though.

I'm gonna say no.

Back in the shit .

Has Jose lost his Midas touch ?

Originally Posted by MJ Ramone

a bad Refereeing decision isn't a moment of good or bad fortune though.
It's not like I'm talking about a marginal offside call or a throw-in for them when they clearly had the last touch or whatever.
The 'no penalty' decision against City was both inexcusable & it directly affected the result.

I know we're all incredibly self aware c***s on here & we slag off our own team to high heaven but I like to moan about Refs too because they're £#%&!ing c***s who play to the ABU galleries & listen to Talksport Phone-Ins.

people tend to ignore refereeing patterns when they think it detracts from the bigger picture. i have no idea why.

that pen v city would have put us in a great position, and we might even have won. but that doesn't mean that we weren't completely out-fought and out-played until then.

it was the same thing with moyes, although far worse - over and over again, from very earlier in his tenure, referees allowed opponents to completely take the piss whilst almost literally giving us nothing. not only did the broadcast media virtually ignore or completely excuse all this, but so did most of our support.

Originally Posted by MJ Ramone

a bad Refereeing decision isn't a moment of good or bad fortune though.
It's not like I'm talking about a marginal offside call or a throw-in for them when they clearly had the last touch or whatever.
The 'no penalty' decision against City was both inexcusable & it directly affected the result.

I know we're all incredibly self aware c***s on here & we slag off our own team to high heaven but I like to moan about Refs too because they're £#%&!ing c***s who play to the ABU galleries & listen to Talksport Phone-Ins.

Isn't it? I'd say it's the one element that is as close to luck as it gets because it's out of your control. If you hit the underside of the bar and it bounces off the line, it's still because you missed the target.

And I do think it was marginal yesterday. I think it was a foul, but I don't think it was blatant. I'd be more annoyed if the player was nowhere near the ball and you can't even see how it's not been awarded, but you can clearly see why he played on, even if it is ultimately the wrong call. It wasn't an outrageous decision and again, as nobody seems to be referencing, Watford could easily have been awarded a penalty for shirt pulling against Fellaini. We were screwed by the ref in one instance and saved by him in the next, so to bemoan the ref is to ignore an instance that could have hurt us more.

The city one last week was blatant. No doubt. We were unlucky with that one.

There's nothing wrong with bemoaning a poor decision, in essence, each to their own, but it's so often the thing that people lead with and discuss the most. Numerous things within our control went wrong yesterday. Things that, if we'd got right, would render the award of a free kick in our left back position a complete non-event. I'm more annoyed at Anthony Martial failing to release the ball earlier than I am at a ref. I'm more annoyed when anthony martial doesn't do his job than when a ref doesn't do his. But hey, that's just me. I find general Ref-bashing an instant eye-rolling, blame-shifting weakness.

Originally Posted by Billy Redface

Isn't it? I'd say it's the one element that is as close to luck as it gets because it's out of your control. If you hit the underside of the bar and it bounces off the line, it's still because you missed the target.

And I do think it was marginal yesterday. I think it was a foul, but I don't think it was blatant. I'd be more annoyed if the player was nowhere near the ball and you can't even see how it's not been awarded, but you can clearly see why he played on, even if it is ultimately the wrong call. It wasn't an outrageous decision and again, as nobody seems to be referencing, Watford could easily have been awarded a penalty for shirt pulling against Fellaini. We were screwed by the ref in one instance and saved by him in the next, so to bemoan the ref is to ignore an instance that could have hurt us more.

The city one last week was blatant. No doubt. We were unlucky with that one.

There's nothing wrong with bemoaning a poor decision, in essence, each to their own, but it's so often the thing that people lead with and discuss the most. Numerous things within our control went wrong yesterday. Things that, if we'd got right, would render the award of a free kick in our left back position a complete non-event. I'm more annoyed at Anthony Martial failing to release the ball earlier than I am at a ref. I'm more annoyed when anthony martial doesn't do his job than when a ref doesn't do his. But hey, that's just me. I find general Ref-bashing an instant eye-rolling, blame-shifting weakness.

I agree with you, but it seemed obvious to me Martial was still not right after the clash of heads.

someone could have marked capoue.

it was a blatant foul.

martial should have moved the ball on quickly.

martial should have been subbed after the head clash.

martial should not have been playing on current form.

I would not have appointed jose.

still.... it was a foul.

Back to 7th, yep

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

people tend to ignore refereeing patterns when they think it detracts from the bigger picture. i have no idea why.

that pen v city would have put us in a great position, and we might even have won. but that doesn't mean that we weren't completely out-fought and out-played until then.

it was the same thing with moyes, although far worse - over and over again, from very earlier in his tenure, referees allowed opponents to completely take the piss whilst almost literally giving us nothing. not only did the broadcast media virtually ignore or completely excuse all this, but so did most of our support.

No, that's fair enough. Refereeing patterns, as you put it, annoy me more. No one decision is that bad, but it's just a series of a 'style' of Refereeing. Ugh.

Isolated decisions just seem like bad luck. Some you get, some you don't etc, but it's more annoying when you see a 'homer' ref or a ref afraid to make big calls, refs that try to even it out or basically try to dictate the game in anyway. I hate all this 'he's letting the game flow' shit too. That's not his job. That's the players job to do my not commiting fouls. The ref enforces the laws of the game. That's it. There'd enough inconsistency with human error without trying to manage games like that.

Originally Posted by Zorg

I agree with you, but it seemed obvious to me Martial was still not right after the clash of heads.

Yeah. Which is why I was more annoyed at him. Struggling, in key phase of the game, don't run back towards your own goal and try and play out of trouble. Ofcourse if the foul is rightly given then I guess we'd all say it's good play. Fine margins, but I think he gave himself an unnecessary problem.

Originally Posted by Billy Redface

There's nothing wrong with bemoaning a poor decision, in essence, each to their own...

so why do you always bemoan people bemoaning poor decisions then?

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

so why do you always bemoan people bemoaning poor decisions then?

I don't.

Hth.