*Official Match Thread* - CSKA Moscow v Manchester United 21/10/15

Originally Posted by jem

in fact, our possession football isn't safety first, because our midfielders are constantly having to jink around with players on their backs. it's just that schweini and herrera are quite good at it.

Yeah. "Safety first" is totally wrong, that's people seeing what they want to, like all it takes is for them to be roared at "attack attack attack" and it'll all click into place, and the reason it's not working is solely because van Gaal doesn't shout at them enough.

Whereas it's not working because they don't know each other well enough, they don't know where their teammates want it etc. People who talk about being bored by Barcelona's passing possession game are entitled to their incorrect opinion, but our possession game (which is a bit boring) is nothing like theirs, they can play with their eyes shut, we're miles off doing that.

We were very risk averse in the final third last night, against a fairly poor side in European terms.

I thought it was a disappointing performance and result.

Originally Posted by andyroo

Yeah. "Safety first" is totally wrong, that's people seeing what they want to, like all it takes is for them to be roared at "attack attack attack" and it'll all click into place, and the reason it's not working is solely because van Gaal doesn't shout at them enough.

Whereas it's not working because they don't know each other well enough, they don't know where their teammates want it etc. People who talk about being bored by Barcelona's passing possession game are entitled to their incorrect opinion, but our possession game (which is a bit boring) is nothing like theirs, they can play with their eyes shut, we're miles off doing that.

as were Barca before it clicked

Originally Posted by andyroo

Yeah. "Safety first" is totally wrong, that's people seeing what they want to, like all it takes is for them to be roared at "attack attack attack" and it'll all click into place, and the reason it's not working is solely because van Gaal doesn't shout at them enough.

Whereas it's not working because they don't know each other well enough, they don't know where their teammates want it etc. People who talk about being bored by Barcelona's passing possession game are entitled to their incorrect opinion, but our possession game (which is a bit boring) is nothing like theirs, they can play with their eyes shut, we're miles off doing that.

valencia and rooney have barely met.

Originally Posted by jem

valencia and rooney have barely met.

The way they play you'd think so.

Originally Posted by irk

There were a lot of stinkers in his later years. I complained about that too. None of which has any relevance to LVG's unadventurous tactics.

And his later years were his most successful in Europe.

Think it's a bit much expecting LVG to turn United into a team that can beat any team in Europe with devastating attacking football within 16 months of the Moyescaust.

We'll qualify. We're two points off the top of the league. We've clearly signed an absolute worldy.

Progress.

Originally Posted by atticusgrinch

Think it's a bit much expecting LVG to turn United into a team that can beat any team in Europe with devastating attacking football within 16 months of the Moyescaust.

no one expects that. it would be nice to be entertaining and effective, though. them, I mean.

Originally Posted by atticusgrinch

And his later years were his most successful in Europe.

Think it's a bit much expecting LVG to turn United into a team that can beat any team in Europe with devastating attacking football within 16 months of the Moyescaust.

We'll qualify. We're two points off the top of the league. We've clearly signed an absolute worldy.

Progress.

...but it's not the United way

Ron Atkinsons teams were always entertaining. Those sporadic FA cups were a treat.

Ensuring you get out of the group efficiently while a group of new players get used to each other ahead of the knockout rounds makes sense to me.

Originally Posted by jem

no one expects that. it would be nice to be entertaining and effective, though. them, I mean.

You do appreciate that no team can be entertaining and effective every game they play?

This isn't rhetorical btw.

Originally Posted by Charlestown Rouge

Ron Atkinsons teams were always entertaining. Those sporadic FA cups were a treat.

Ensuring you get out of the group efficiently while a group of new players get used to each other ahead of the knockout rounds makes sense to me.

I'd get Keegan in after LvG.

For me, it's not that we're not entertaining in the CL as it's all about qualification and boring games are to be expected. The thing that bugs me about this United team is that they're boring in every competition.

Originally Posted by dragflick

I'd get Keegan in after LvG.

What's Ardiles doing these days?

if we qualify.

Originally Posted by dunk

I understand that, it's that the first touch is to take/turn them backwards, not have a touch/look as to what's available going forward, a default turn backwards and protect the ball. Which is fine, it just seems a little prevalent at times, I'm hoping it's just a symptom of the team/manager still searching for a bit of safety in lieu of full attacking confidence.

My main criticism too. Rooney’s getting a lot of stick again but felt we isolated him too often. Few times he was on the shoulder of defender but the player in possession turns away from his run and plays safe

Still – a decent point in tricky conditions

Originally Posted by atticusgrinch

What's Ardiles doing these days?

a front 5, the mad £#%&!er

Originally Posted by jem

that is fair enough. what is not fair enough is failing to use the ball quickly to deliver it accurately to men making runs into space and taking the easy option instead. it's not that we aren't giving the ball away recklessly, it's that we aren't creating chances when we could because our mindset is wrong. that and the fact that valencia isn't beckham.

in fact, our possession football isn't safety first, because our midfielders are constantly having to jink around with players on their backs. it's just that schweini and herrera are quite good at it.

I dunno, I'm not sure the movement and showing for passes was great. As we've seen, United have no problem being quick and instinctive when there's space on the field. The goals last weekend; the counter attacks against Liverpool. But when the space is squeezed, as it so often will be against deep defences, you're obviously relying on individual quality or sharp combination play to open them up.

Martial is the only player atm who looks like beating a player; hopefully Memphis will soon. So we need better combination play. Rooney is a problem there, both on and off the ball, but it also doesn't help that the team is still searching for cohesion. How many different set-ups have we seen already this season in the last third. Fair enough to experiment at this stage, while we are adapting several new players, but I don't think our tempo will have a sustained improvement until we get a relatively settled side across a couple of months.

Originally Posted by dunk

I understand that, it's that the first touch is to take/turn them backwards, not have a touch/look as to what's available going forward, a default turn backwards and protect the ball. Which is fine, it just seems a little prevalent at times, I'm hoping it's just a symptom of the team/manager still searching for a bit of safety in lieu of full attacking confidence.

Yes, I think that's more prevalent with certain players, tbh. Not so much Herrera and Martial, for example. But again if you feel the space is compact and there isn't a pass on, you will naturally protect the ball. The combination play isn't sharp enough anyway; the movement often isn't there. That usually comes with playing together. Perhaps not too shocking that a Martial-Rooney-Lingard frontline wasn't that in tune with each other, and as you say is searching for a bit of fluidity and confidence as a group.

Playing Basti last night remains a funny one. I guess trying to fast-track the extent to which he controls the tempo. Didn't really work

Still, we've played alright in Europe and have become much more of a goal threat in the league over the last month. It's not so bad, really.

Originally Posted by puressence

Ferguson should have been made to pay the transfer absolutely disgusting to spend 17 million on a player who was injured a joke

or, alternatively, £17m for a player who was fairly integral to the double winning side that season. Hargreaves is a #@&%! but he was involved in some important games in 07/08. Obviously he should have been taken out to the pastures and shot after the CL final, the odd little girl.

Originally Posted by atticusgrinch

What's Ardiles doing these days?

last I heard he was on his way to wembley, but never made it because of a non specific lower limb failure

Originally Posted by bigMikeA

or, alternatively, £17m for a player who was fairly integral to the double winning side that season. Hargreaves is a #@&%! but he was involved in some important games in 07/08. Obviously he should have been taken out to the pastures and shot after the CL final, the odd little girl.

Didn't he play 27 games in 4 years. Massive well done