Clubs who can't sell tickets

Originally Posted by dodger

i think he meant a single match day attendance record.

United's biggest crowd was against Sunderland 60585 which I think is bigger than St James Park capacity.

As I said in the first post, the record is probibly a Championship record not a record set when we used to call it the first or second division.

Originally Posted by LaPaz

United's biggest crowd was against Sunderland 60585 which I think is bigger than St James Park capacity.As I said in the first post, the record is probibly a Championship record not a record set when we used to call it the first or second division.

It is now, I doubt it has always been. Not that I give a £#%&!, just trying to mediate

Originally Posted by dodger

But eventually you'll have a stream of clubs who are all bankrupt, or close to it, and the realisation will hit home that being in the premiership is actually likely to make you go bust.

Plenty already realise this. I've heard more than one manager say they would rather not be promoted until they are genuinely ready. Fans of those clubs dont want to hear it but the managers and the chairmen and the finance directors understand it very well that a year in the PL can damage you long term. More would say it more openly if it didnt piss off the fans who can label them as lacking ambition.

And personally I don't thinka a few opposition fans buying season tickets is sustainable either.

I'm not saying its sustainable for individual clubs. I agree with you that it isnt sustainable. The newly promoted clubs have artificially-inflated "novelty-value" attendance figures for a year or two. Wigan , Sunderland and Middelsboro were buzzing for a few years when they came up I seem to recall.

But the clubs who run out of money will be relegated and replaced by eager beavers on the up through a mix of good fortune, good management, generous owners and good/lucky finances ( eg a couple of good cup runs by championship clubs )

Originally Posted by dodger

It is now, I doubt it has always been. Not that I give a £#%&!, just trying to mediate

No need to mediate as there's no conflict it's not somthing to get too arsed about..

Checking the cartoon armys site, they state that on the 20th December 2009 against Middlesboro there was a record Championship crowd of 49644.

In the second division united played 7 games at Old Trafford in fromt of crows in excess of 50000, so I'm more convinced than ever that its another case of football not existing prior to the Championship and the PL, (which is a bit of a sore point with me & no doubt a lot more...lol).

According to tinternet the capacity at St James Park is 52387..

Originally Posted by LaPaz

According to tinternet the capacity at St James Park is 52387..

But that's now, as an all seater, right?

Originally Posted by Grimson

But that's now, as an all seater, right?

Yes but It's getting confusing as to what each of us mean by 'second division'.

The original point was that Newcastle hold the record attendance for the second division.

It's not an issue just a bit of fun.

From Newcastle site:

All-time attendance statistics

NUFC's attendance of 56,299 in Division Two during 1947-48 was an all-time national attendance record until the late '60's.

Highest attendance by year: 56,283 (1948)
Average attendance: 30,315
Average top-flight attendance: 33,127
Average 2nd Division attendance: 22,714

All the above records were bettered by United when we were in the Second division

Originally Posted by LaPaz

Nobody's going to pay £25, or more to the point £500+ for a season ticket when they can wait & pay £5/£10 match by match & without the season ticket sales, which is money up front before a ball is kicked, then the majority of clubs would have major financial problems.

ok hows about all tickets are £13. the ground is full and the ticket sales remain the same in revenue but you sell more ale and shit on matchdays and the atmos is better.

Originally Posted by LaPaz

Yes but It's getting confusing as to what each of us mean by 'second division'.

The one directly below the top flight, with promotion into it. Not that confusing tbh. I take your point on the attendance record tho. Believe should have to explain himself or face the consequences.

Originally Posted by wonky no

ok hows about all tickets are £13. the ground is full and the ticket sales remain the same in revenue but you sell more ale and shit on matchdays and the atmos is better.

That would work if the crowd was guarenteed but it isn't.

IMO you would get the same attendance for unattractive fixtures as you do now but at half the revenue.

For the big fixtures that they know they can sell out then obviously they wouldn't drop the prices.

Maybe a 3 tier price structure say £15 for unattractive opposition, £20 for attractive opposion & £30 for the top teams.
You could work that into the price of a ST & even introduce 'incentives' (if that's the right word ) such as by buying 3 £15 games you are guarenteed a ticket for a top team game.

Originally Posted by LaPaz

That would work if the crowd was guarenteed but it isn't.

IMO you would get the same attendance for unattractive fixtures as you do now but at half the revenue.

For the big fixtures that they know they can sell out then obviously they wouldn't drop the prices.

Maybe a 3 tier price structure say £15 for unattractive opposition, £20 for attractive opposion & £30 for the top teams.
You could work that into the price of a ST & even introduce 'incentives' (if that's the right word ) such as by buying 3 £15 games you are guarenteed a ticket for a top team game.

Problem with that is, like Birmingham, it is the top teams away fans that get screwed all the time as it is a requirement (I think) that away fans have to be charged the same as home fans.

Originally Posted by Grimson

The one directly below the top flight, with promotion into it. Not that confusing tbh. I take your point on the attendance record tho. Believe should have to explain himself or face the consequences.

Exactly my view of what the second division is & always has been.

However in December last year Newcastles game with Boro is reported to be the biggest Championship attendance but it isn't the biggest 2nd division (as we see it) attendance & that's really the nub of it.

I got the wrong end of the stick in the original post & went off like a clown talking about average attendances & total attendance for the season

Originally Posted by wee man

Problem with that is, like Birmingham, it is the top teams away fans that get screwed all the time as it is a requirement (I think) that away fans have to be charged the same as home fans.

Agree totally but we're discussing ways that the home team can fill empty seats, rather than fairness to away fans ore for that matter home fans.

in the end it comes down to demand for tickets & Wigan etc will always be able to sell tickets against United, Chelsea etc easier than Stoke, West Ham and so on.

Originally Posted by LaPaz

Agree totally but we're discussing ways that the home team can fill empty seats, rather than fairness to away fans ore for that matter home fans.

in the end it comes down to demand for tickets & Wigan etc will always be able to sell tickets against United, Chelsea etc easier than Stoke, West Ham and so on.

yes - but fairness to the away fans comes as part of that package as it is a requirement that home and away fans are charged the same prices.

Originally Posted by LaPaz

However in December last year Newcastles game with Boro is reported to be the biggest Championship attendance but it isn't the biggest 2nd division (as we see it) attendance & that's really the nub of it.

Yeah that's the old story of the Premier League and Championship both treating football history, in terms of records and such, as if it didn't exist before they came into being.

Originally Posted by Grimson

Yeah that's the old story of the Premier League and Championship both treating football history, in terms of records and such, as if it didn't exist before they came into being.

Yes, I did make that point in a previous post

Just flicked past the Palace v Wolves FA Cup replay on ITV4, rows upon rows of empty seats...the magic of the cup

Originally Posted by LaPaz

United's biggest crowd was against Sunderland 60585 which I think is bigger than St James Park capacity.

As I said in the first post, the record is probibly a Championship record not a record set when we used to call it the first or second division.

I'm only quoting UWS

ask the anorak...

"did united set a division 2 average home attendance during the 74-75 season?"

With an average of 48,388 you would have thought so but strangely enough it wasn't enough to beat Newcastle United's 56,472 in 47-48.

Seems i was talking about averages though

Originally Posted by JakeB

Just flicked past the Palace v Wolves FA Cup replay on ITV4, rows upon rows of empty seats...the magic of the cup

But - and to return to my original point - should one of those clubs get to the final they'll be bleating about not being able to provide tickets to all their incredibly loyal supporters.

Should lump the 2 clubs allocations for a final together and issue them pro-rata based on their average attendances.

Originally Posted by believe

slighlty off topic but did you know that Newcastle United have the record gate attendance for the second division.

Originally Posted by LaPaz

That's not true.

Up to 30 Januar 2010 they had a total attendence of 591816 at an average of 42727.

When United were in the 2nd division all the attendences were above 40,000 the lowest being 40,671 but only about three others were below Newcastles average.

I suspect it may be a record for the Championship which is a fairly new reinvention of the old 2nd division.

Originally Posted by believe

who said anything about averages

Originally Posted by believe

Seems i was talking about averages though

ffs

Originally Posted by Grimson

ffs

worth more than just one