If it's all Fergie's fault then

how is it that everton are above us?

Are the people saying it's fergie's fault saying everton have a better squad?

Please explain how martinez with a squad shorn of supposedly one of their best players has his team above the team that won the league.

I just don't understand how inheriting the champions is that bad a gig nor how the guy who inherited moyes last team is vastly improving their football/results. Unless perhaps he's actually a talented manager and moyes is something else.

Tha'wat?

Originally Posted by HolyMackrelDoodleBonkon

Tha'wat?

People are saying it's fergie's fault and that moyes should be given two years to fix things. He inherited the champions and stole everton's supposedly best player (his opinion not mine) yet everton beat us and are above us in the table and play better football.

Originally Posted by armchair

how is it that everton are above us?

Are the people saying it's fergie's fault saying everton have a better squad?

Please explain how martinez with a squad shorn of supposedly one of their best players has his team above the team that won the league.

Because they've got a hard working team. Barry isnt a particularly great player,but he does a job for Everton. That's true of their whole team tbf, one or two aside, but it doesn't matter. Delofeu was a masterstroke on loan.

apart from suggesting moyes as his successor I don't see that fergie did too much wrong.

Plenty of managers have taken over clubs in a far worse state than United.

speculation and opinions are fine, but the only fact is that fergie left moyes with a squad that won the premier league title last season. no matter what gripes people had with the players, as a team they won the entire competition and they did it fairly comfortably.

14 games in this season and we're 12 points off top spot having lost no major players and spent £27m on a new central midfielder.

there's plenty of blame to go around but fergie's at the bottom of the list.

I dont think Fergie would of won the league this year with this team BUT he'd be a hell of a lot better off than we are now.

I think it is Fergies fault we have this plank in charge though.

Everton are above us for now. Let's not get too excited about them. Expectations were low and Martinez will have to keep this up to maintain the giddyness. And a whole load of their best players are in on loan.

I really don't see the point in looking at anyone else at this moment. We're struggling and nothing else matters.

Fergie left Moyes with one half decent midfielder, scandalous really.

Young,Nani, Welbeck, Anderson, Bebe, a 40 year old Giggs and Cleverley are just not good enough for Manchester United.

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

Everton are above us for now. Let's not get too excited about them. Expectations were low and Martinez will have to keep this up to maintain the giddyness. And a whole load of their best players are in on loan.

I really don't see the point in looking at anyone else at this moment. We're struggling and nothing else matters.

Martinez would've been a better choice. We have a far better squad than everton and yet they beat us at home and are way above us. Saying that, Martinez wasn't the first choice but I think we could've come up with 10 better choice than moyes.

What we have is worse football than the dross fergie churned out in the worse days but without the results.

I think most would agree Fergie had us over-achieveing for the last couple of seasons. These results have been coming for a long while now and we'd be getting them whoever was in charge if they hadn't changed personnel.

Moyes can be forgiven the lack of/poor transfer window in the summer, he needed to be seen to be giving a title winning side a chance.

Come January he needs to rip the guts out of the side and start re-building.

Originally Posted by ralph

Fergie left Moyes with one half decent midfielder, scandalous really.

Young,Nani, Welbeck, Anderson, Bebe, a 40 year old Giggs and Cleverley are just not good enough for Manchester United.

He could play kagawa in midfield. He trusts Giggs there so why not.

No-one forced him to sign a big lumbering fool. Wanyama cost soton 12.5mil and he's a far better player than felony who cost 27.5million. Honestly we could've signed wanyama for 15 tops and then signed someone else instead of this stupid pretence that we were seriously 'in' for fab/ronaldo etc.

Originally Posted by armchair

He could play kagawa in midfield. He trusts Giggs there so why not.

No-one forced him to sign a big lumbering fool. Wanyama cost soton 12.5mil and he's a far better player than felony who cost 27.5million. Honestly we could've sign wanyama for 15 tops and then signed someone else instead of this stupid pretence that we were seriously 'in' for fab/ronaldo etc.

Or we could have kept Powell and Lingard, costing us £#%&! all. I know hindsight is wonderful but that compared to flushing £27m down the toilet would be like night and day.

Originally Posted by armchair

how is it that everton are above us?

Are the people saying it's fergie's fault saying everton have a better squad?

Please explain how martinez with a squad shorn of supposedly one of their best players has his team above the team that won the league.

I just don't understand how inheriting the champions is that bad a gig nor how the guy who inherited moyes last team is vastly improving their football/results. Unless perhaps he's actually a talented manager and moyes is something else.

Exactly! Managers of quality would be able to have this squad up at the top.

Originally Posted by tatty

I think most would agree Fergie had us over-achieveing for the last couple of seasons. These results have been coming for a long while now and we'd be getting them whoever was in charge if they hadn't changed personnel.

Moyes can be forgiven the lack of/poor transfer window in the summer, he needed to be seen to be giving a title winning side a chance.

Come January he needs to rip the guts out of the side and start re-building.

So we'd be 9th in the table regardless of who's in charge?

United was a great job to walk into, whatever nonsense people come up with to suggest otherwise. The nucleus of a very strong side, just really needing a midfielder or two of the new manager's preferred style signed from a substantial budget. And a six-year contract.

You really couldn't ask for an awful lot more.

Originally Posted by tatty

I think most would agree Fergie had us over-achieveing for the last couple of seasons. These results have been coming for a long while now and we'd be getting them whoever was in charge if they hadn't changed personnel.

Moyes can be forgiven the lack of/poor transfer window in the summer, he needed to be seen to be giving a title winning side a chance.

Come January he needs to rip the guts out of the side and start re-building.

he needed to do that in the summer, not in January.

he seems to get a pass from everybody regarding the summer and i don't understand why. a proper united manager would not have allowed woodward to £#%&! about and ruin everything. there should have been an ultimatum of 'get who i want or shit will hit the fan'. but moyes only had eyes for his old everton players and admitted he hadn't even watched thiago, for example, and didn't want him anyway.

i get the feeling moyes was so caught up in the euphoria of being utd manager he abdicated his responsibility to ensure the proper processes were in place to strengthen the squad, and instead of constantly following up on transfer progress and addressing the glaring issues in the team he was bowing at plants and firing our competent backroom staff so he could bring his mates from everton in.

you all seem to be forgetting the golden rule of football

that rule is either the one where if you miss your chances you will get punished

or the one where football kicks you in the %@#$&!s - like when the team you most need to lose to scores a late winner against you on your own pitch at a time when you least £#%&!ing need it. and especially when the other first rule saw you miss yet another load of chances before the knife was thrust

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

you all seem to be forgetting the golden rule of football

that rule is either the one where if you miss your chances you will get punished

or the one where football kicks you in the %@#$&!s - like when the team you most need to lose to scores a late winner against you on your own pitch at a time when you least £#%&!ing need it. and especially when the other first rule saw you miss yet another load of chances before the knife was thrust

I'd prefer to be in this position as a result of a manager taking chances and trying to play football rather than some safety first guy losing when he played for a draw.

Originally Posted by armchair

I'd prefer to be in this position as a result of a manager taking chances and trying to play football rather than some safety first guy losing when he played for a draw.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

you all seem to be forgetting the golden rule of football

that rule is either the one where if you miss your chances you will get punished

or the one where football kicks you in the b*****ks - like when the team you most need to lose to scores a late winner against you on your own pitch at a time when you least f***ing need it. and especially when the other first rule saw you miss yet another load of chances before the knife was thrust

Everton missed chances. Spurs missed chances. Fact is we weren't really good enough in either game.