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Unread 07-05-2016, 03:13 PM
Billy Redface
 
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He's a weird one because he typifies a lot of or issues in terms of ponderous possession, lack of speed and inconsistency..

On the other hand, he has the ability, an eye for goal and the capacity to do something a bit different at a key stage. And he has stepped up in key moments and key games.

He needs a better full back than darmian or valencia as well.

He's technically one of the best players we have but also a big part of our problems.

Ultimately though, I like him. I'd rather have him there than Lingard.

Lingard is a better fit, but just isn't good enough.
 
Unread 07-05-2016, 03:13 PM
S/Side.Red
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky***
Well of course he shoulder all that, rather than look at the bigger picture which is the fundamental problem with the slow, ponderous way United play, the abysmal lack of quality in wide areas and absolute nothing players like Lingard and Darmian.
Didn't say he should shoulder all of it, but he hasn't been great this season.

And if we're honest, he contributes to the slow build up play as much as anyone.
 
Unread 07-05-2016, 03:15 PM
dunk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky***
Doesn't make sense to play Lingard at all - he's an atrocious non-entity of a footballer.

If Dunk thinks Mata is a lightweight i'd love to know what he makes of Lingard, i've seen people suffering from Radiation poisoning with more strength.
Equally lightweight, but at least can move and cause the opposition issues by putting them under pressure. Looks to be tiring a bit now Lingard tbf. Doubt he's ever played this much before in his career. Deffo needs a season in the gym sorting his core and upper body strength out. Take a bit off Memphis so he can actually move and put it on Lingers..
 
Unread 07-05-2016, 03:15 PM
S/Side.Red
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk
It does, because he offers nothing in terms of carrying the ball or pressing the opposition or defending, too easily bypassed.
Indeed. He plays right for the same reason he played there under Mourinho. You have to press effectively in the central areas and with most teams now playing one up top, having a no10 who couldn't outrun a 10-year-old doesn't help you much in that regard.
 
Unread 07-05-2016, 03:16 PM
Sparky***
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk
Equally lightweight, but at least can move and cause the opposition issues by putting them under pressure. Looks to be tiring a bit now Lingard tbf. Doubt he's ever played this much before in his career. Deffo needs a season in the gym sorting his core and upper body strength out. Take a bit off Memphis so he can actually move and put it on Lingers..
How exactly is putting him in the Gym going to affect the fact that he's not a very good footballer who can't shoot, assist or do much of anything?

All we'd end up with is another Memphis. A shit little footballer built like a tank.
 
Unread 07-05-2016, 03:16 PM
dunk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Redface
He's a weird one because he typifies a lot of or issues in terms of ponderous possession, lack of speed and inconsistency..

On the other hand, he has the ability, an eye for goal and the capacity to do something a bit different at a key stage. And he has stepped up in key moments and key games.

He needs a better full back than darmian or valencia as well.

He's technically one of the best players we have but also a big part of our problems.

Ultimately though, I like him. I'd rather have him there than Lingard.

Lingard is a better fit, but just isn't good enough.
Big Tone ran that entire right hand side all in his own today tbf. If he could actually pick out a cross these days he'd be ace

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky***
How exactly is putting him in the Gym going to affect the fact that he's not a very good footballer who can't shoot, assist or do much of anything?
Because he can and does do those things and is a good footballer. He'd be able to do them more if he wasn't as easy to knock over as a small boy and had more confidence in his own uprightness
 
Unread 07-05-2016, 03:19 PM
Billy Redface
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk
Big Tone ran that entire right hand side all in his own today tbf. If he could actually pick out a cross these days he'd be ace



Because he can and does do those things. He'd be able tondo them more if he wasn't as easy to knock over as a small boy and had more confidence in his own uprightness
He gets in the right areas, but can't cross. He also won't go on the inside, so it means mata has to and makes the whole dynamic very predictable.

Still shocked how much ground mata made up for the goal. If lingard had made that run, we'd all be saying how there's no way mata would have made the same run
 
Unread 07-05-2016, 03:20 PM
Sparky***
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk
Because he can and does do those things and is a good footballer. He'd be able to do them more if he wasn't as easy to knock over as a small boy and had more confidence in his own uprightness
No he isn't. He's 24. If he were any good he'd be doing them now. As it is he's a £#%&!ing championship level footballer at best.
 
Unread 07-05-2016, 03:20 PM
dunk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Redface
He gets in the right areas, but can't cross. He also won't go on the inside, so it means mata has to and makes the whole dynamic very predictable.

Still shocked how much ground mata made up for the goal. If lingard had made that run, we'd all be saying how there's no way mata would have made the same run
He did haul ass was proud of him tbh. Can't knock his instinct for a goal, slightest sniff and he's on it.

Should've hit that one first half first time with his right though..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky***
No he isn't. He's 24. If he were any good he'd be doing them now. As it is he's a £#%&!ing championship level footballer at best.
Ok, cool. I forgot you operate in that World where everyone reaches their peak in their late teens and early 20's and should be binned if not first team regulars at that point
 
Unread 07-05-2016, 03:21 PM
Billy Redface
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk
Big Tone ran that entire right hand side all in his own today tbf. If he could actually pick out a cross these days he'd be ace



Because he can and does do those things and is a good footballer. He'd be able to do them more if he wasn't as easy to knock over as a small boy and had more confidence in his own uprightness
But he doesn't, Dunk. Or at least not anywhere near enough. He gives the ball away a lot, his passing range is limited and his shots often just slam straight along the ground at the nearest defender.

He works hard and I think he times his runs nicely and gets into good areas, but his end product is largely disappointing and I don't see any natural attributes in his game to suggest he should be a fixture in such an important area of the pitch.

Might make a decent squad player, but he seems to be one of the first names on the team sheet now despite doing very little.
 
Unread 07-05-2016, 03:22 PM
Vetch
 
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Mata is a classy player but still don't think it works for us.

He is desperate to keep Van Gaal in a job because he knows he's £#%&!ed if Jose turns up.
 
Unread 07-05-2016, 03:23 PM
dunk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Redface
But he doesn't, Dunk. Or at least not anywhere near enough. He gives the ball away a lot, his passing range is limited and his shots often just slam straight along the ground at the nearest defender.

He works hard and I think he times his runs nicely and gets into good areas, but his end product is largely disappointing and I don't see any natural attributes in his game to suggest he should be a fixture in such an important area of the pitch.
All areas he's shown ability in throughout his career at various levels, and at times at this level. Greater experience and confidence and the ability to stay upright under pressure would improve all those things. He's not going to be a regular pick, but he can be useful, as he has been.

Looks really £#%&!ing weary at the moment.
 
Unread 07-05-2016, 03:24 PM
morgan
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
Indeed. He plays right for the same reason he played there under Mourinho. You have to press effectively in the central areas and with most teams now playing one up top, having a no10 who couldn't outrun a 10-year-old doesn't help you much in that regard.
But that just shifts the problem to our right flank

I also haven't noticed Lingard bossing central areas, he tried to haul a player to the ground in the first half and just bounced off him
 
Unread 07-05-2016, 03:24 PM
Billy Redface
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk
All areas he's shown ability in throughout his career at various levels, and at times at this level. Greater experience and confidence and the ability to stay upright under pressure would improve all those things. He's not going to be a regular pick, but he can be useful, as he has been.
Perhaps. I remain open-minded and unconvinced.

If I had to pick today between selling him or Mata, I'd sell him.

His performance level has dropped a bit. Needs a rest as much as anyone. With his goal today, I'd start Mata ahead of him on Tuesday.

He deserved his starts when he first came in. I think Mata deserves a recall now.
 
Unread 07-05-2016, 03:25 PM
S/Side.Red
 
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Lingard is 23. He was anonymous today. He does plenty of good things which is why van Gaal likes him, but overall his issue is simple: he will need to score more goals to make it at United. Wouldn't write him off just yet. Fergie said he'd be a late bloomer.
 
Unread 07-05-2016, 03:26 PM
VodkaAndCoke
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
Didn't say he should shoulder all of it, but he hasn't been great this season.

And if we're honest, he contributes to the slow build up play as much as anyone.
A bit harsh to single out any one individual with that complaint
 
Unread 07-05-2016, 03:27 PM
dunk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Redface
Perhaps. I remain open-minded and unconvinced.

If I had to pick today between selling him or Mata, I'd sell him.
Not even a question for me. One is earning £150k and contributing the bare minimum, the other is performing well above expectation on a shit ton less money ta-ra Juan, let's put your wages towards a proper player.
 
Unread 07-05-2016, 03:27 PM
believe
 
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Mata's a great player, only a complete moron would fail to recognize that.
 
Unread 07-05-2016, 03:28 PM
dunk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by believe
Mata's a great player, only a complete moron would fail to recognize that.
Hm, the same moron you are clamouring for as the next manager of Manchester United
 
Unread 07-05-2016, 03:28 PM
Billy Redface
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk
Not even a question for me. One is earning £150k and contributing the bare minimum, the other is performing well above expectation on a shit ton less money ta-ra Juan, let's put your wages towards a proper player.
Above expectation only if we have low expectations of a player in that position.

Above expectation for lingard, below expectations for United's right hand side.

I don't care how much the players earn.
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