Evans to get chance next season

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Rossi seemed to think he'd be here last season, both at the start of the season and in Janaury before he went to Parma.

.

Maybe so but unlike Pique and Evans I don't think he was told outright he would be

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

Isn't that where you have 20-30 players of identical quality and therefore slag off players like Park, Brown and Smith because they're not as good as your best 11?

Ooh, get her.

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

Are you aware of the term "squad"?

I have seen enough of him to conclude that Richardson could do a better job in central defence.... wifebeater...

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

Ooh, get her.

Re-ow!!

You would think Chelsea will be better this year, chances are it is going to be neck-and-neck all season. How often, in the Premiership or Europe, is Fergie likely to break up the first choice central defensive partnership of Rio and Vidic to try out a kid like Evans or Pique. If he is tempted or forced into a change, he'll go for the experience of Brown.

Perhaps these guys could play the odd game at full-back, but I just can't see there being enough opportunities for both of them to progress next season.

It's not good for these guys to be playing in the reserves at their age. They need to be playing regular first team football. Evans playing for Sunderland next season against Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal etc would be far more useful for his development that the odd game for us against shite teams at Old Trafford, where he'll barely be tested.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

You would think Chelsea will be better this year, chances are it is going to be neck-and-neck all season. How often, in the Premiership or Europe, is Fergie likely to break up the first choice central defensive partnership of Rio and Vidic to try out a kid like Evans or Pique. If he is tempted or forced into a change, he'll go for the experience of Brown.

Perhaps these guys could play the odd game at full-back, but I just can't see there being enough opportunities for both of them to progress next season.

It's not good for these guys to be playing in the reserves at their age. They need to be playing regular first team football. Evans playing for Sunderland next season against Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal etc would be far more useful for his development that the odd game for us against shite teams at Old Trafford, where he'll barely be tested.

Correct. I repeat, what's the point... let him leave...

Originally Posted by Tensai

I have seen enough of him to conclude that Richardson could do a better job in central defence.... wifebeater...

and there was me forgetting you're a £#%&!wit.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

You would think Chelsea will be better this year, chances are it is going to be neck-and-neck all season. How often, in the Premiership or Europe, is Fergie likely to break up the first choice central defensive partnership of Rio and Vidic to try out a kid like Evans or Pique. If he is tempted or forced into a change, he'll go for the experience of Brown.

Perhaps these guys could play the odd game at full-back, but I just can't see there being enough opportunities for both of them to progress next season.

It's not good for these guys to be playing in the reserves at their age. They need to be playing regular first team football. Evans playing for Sunderland next season against Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal etc would be far more useful for his development that the odd game for us against shite teams at Old Trafford, where he'll barely be tested.

So, it's virtually impossible for us to develop young centre halves and challenge for honours?

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

You would think Chelsea will be better this year, chances are it is going to be neck-and-neck all season. How often, in the Premiership or Europe, is Fergie likely to break up the first choice central defensive partnership of Rio and Vidic to try out a kid like Evans or Pique. If he is tempted or forced into a change, he'll go for the experience of Brown.

Perhaps these guys could play the odd game at full-back, but I just can't see there being enough opportunities for both of them to progress next season.

It's not good for these guys to be playing in the reserves at their age. They need to be playing regular first team football. Evans playing for Sunderland next season against Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal etc would be far more useful for his development that the odd game for us against shite teams at Old Trafford, where he'll barely be tested.

Apparantly Fergie, who knows a thing or 2 about bringing through young players, disagrees.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

You would think Chelsea will be better this year, chances are it is going to be neck-and-neck all season. How often, in the Premiership or Europe, is Fergie likely to break up the first choice central defensive partnership of Rio and Vidic to try out a kid like Evans or Pique. If he is tempted or forced into a change, he'll go for the experience of Brown.

Perhaps these guys could play the odd game at full-back, but I just can't see there being enough opportunities for both of them to progress next season.

It's not good for these guys to be playing in the reserves at their age. They need to be playing regular first team football. Evans playing for Sunderland next season against Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal etc would be far more useful for his development that the odd game for us against shite teams at Old Trafford, where he'll barely be tested.

If that's the case and the attitude of those at OT we may as well write the youth set up off now and bin every single youngster. You may as well say the only way forward is to forgot our own prospects, stuff giving them a chance, and buy a player for each position from club x, y or z.

We can't keep loaning players out year in, year out. You've got to bite the bullet sometime. I'm sorry but I saw enough of Brown, Tweetie and Gabby last year to suggest we'd be no worse off giving Evans or Pique a chance. Also, as a player, they won't want to be loaned out everytime the window opens. Most of the kids want to make it for Utd but likewise they want stability. If they feel they aren't wanted - and to an extent that's what a loan move may feel like - they'll leave. There'll be enough moaning gits on here and elsewhere if we cash in on our three young talents this Summer. Especially if they each come out and say I wasn't going to be given a chance since old timers like Ole, Wes or Tweetie would've got the nod ahead of me.

Sends out the wrong signals to prospective kids hooking up with our youth set up too. And we have enough problems with that as it is.

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

So, it's virtually impossible for us to develop young centre halves and challenge for honours?

I think it's more a problem of trying to incorporate two into the squad, which is why I think one will spend the season elsewhere.

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

Apparantly Fergie, who knows a thing or 2 about bringing through young players, disagrees.

That remains to be seen. As I said before, Rossi came out with all this kind of talk, before being shipped out on loan. Both times.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I think it's more a problem of trying to incorporate two into the squad, which is why I think one will spend the season elsewhere.



That remains to be seen. As I said before, Rossi came out with all this kind of talk, before being shipped out on loan. Both times.

Rossi wanted to go out on loan in august, in January Fergie wanted him to due to Roeder being a @#%&! at Newcastle

Originally Posted by Whalefish

If that's the case and the attitude of those at OT we may as well write the youth set up off now and bin every single youngster. You may as well say the only way forward is to forgot our own prospects, stuff giving them a chance, and buy a player for each position from club x, y or z.

We can't keep loaning players out year in, year out. You've got to bite the bullet sometime. I'm sorry but I saw enough of Brown, Tweetie and Gabby last year to suggest we'd be no worse off giving Evans or Pique a chance. Also, as a player, they won't want to be loaned out everytime the window opens. Most of the kids want to make it for Utd but likewise they want stability. If they feel they aren't wanted - and to an extent that's what a loan move may feel like - they'll leave. There'll be enough moaning gits on here and elsewhere if we cash in on our three young talents this Summer. Especially if they each come out and say I wasn't going to be given a chance since old timers like Ole, Wes or Tweetie would've got the nod ahead of me.

Sends out the wrong signals to prospective kids hooking up with our youth set up too. And we have enough problems with that as it is.

Overall, you're right.

The key thing is biting the bullet.

There has to be a time where they begin to make the transition. You can start it gently (Carling Cup ties, sub appearances, played in less 'threatening' positions) but there comes a time when you simply have to take the chance and mistakes and bedding in are part of the process of developing and a chance you take.

We took that chance in 95. Early on we paid the price a little, but it worked in the long run.
We are at the point with a few of these kids where we have to go one way or the other. Either show them some faith and trust them or get rid!

As you say, the fringe players make enough mistakes to suggest the kids can be just as valuable.

It's also worth noting that EVra has suffered the odd niggling injury in his career, Gary is usually out for 3/4months a season and I don't expect to see Vidic (or Rio) roll out for every single match.

Evans and Pique will get enough games, even if Wes is still around. O'Shea too.

I wasn't having a pop at S/Side, I'm just saying that IMO next season will be a great opportunity to give some of these prospects a chance. Yes we're defending the title but we're not under pressure to win something we hadn't won for a few years. We were last season.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I think it's more a problem of trying to incorporate two into the squad, which is why I think one will spend the season elsewhere.



.

Admittedly, CB is a hard position to break into if you have a settled pairing.

The one area of the pitch you shouldn't tinker with if the team is doing well is the CBs.
Rossi, however, can make a few appearances in fits and starts without disrupting the team too much.
Pique and Evans are competing for a place where familarity, continuity and consistency are the key.

Like I say though, you have to take a chance sometime. Take the plunge and trust them (a show of faith can make a massive difference to a kid's confidence and self belief too) or let them go.

Pique has been on the fringes longer than Evans, I think it's make or break for him.
I think Evans would benefit from Premiership football under Keane's tutorship.
I don't think it's quite make or break for him yet and he can afford a loan extension.

Originally Posted by Whalefish

If that's the case and the attitude of those at OT we may as well write the youth set up off now and bin every single youngster. You may as well say the only way forward is to forgot our own prospects, stuff giving them a chance, and buy a player for each position from club x, y or z.

We can't keep loaning players out year in, year out. You've got to bite the bullet sometime. I'm sorry but I saw enough of Brown, Tweetie and Gabby last year to suggest we'd be no worse off giving Evans or Pique a chance. Also, as a player, they won't want to be loaned out everytime the window opens. Most of the kids want to make it for Utd but likewise they want stability. If they feel they aren't wanted - and to an extent that's what a loan move may feel like - they'll leave. There'll be enough moaning gits on here and elsewhere if we cash in on our three young talents this Summer. Especially if they each come out and say I wasn't going to be given a chance since old timers like Ole, Wes or Tweetie would've got the nod ahead of me.

Sends out the wrong signals to prospective kids hooking up with our youth set up too. And we have enough problems with that as it is.

I think you have to assess just how much football these lads are going to get. With our central defence being as strong as it is at present and with Brown (maybe others) as the initial third in line, I think you're looking at the Carling Cup - which could be over for us as quickly as it begins - then a maximum of 5-10 opportunities in other competitions. Those chances will have to be divided between the two.

Pique or Evans staying and getting 15-odd starts would be well worth doing, but Pique and Evans staying and sharing 15-odd starts between them just isn't going to help their development enough to make it worthwhile.

There's also the small matter of getting rid of Silvestre. If he stays, it will limit their chances even further. I just think our defensive pool is a very compeitive one at the moment and perhaps it's not the right time to bring both back.

I'm not all that confident re our defensive pool tbh. Tweetie should have moved a while back and is no longer good enough IMO. Brown has always been injury prone so you can't rely on him, Gary is going that way so the same applies.

Gabby looks certain to be off.

Rio is about the only one I'd say who - touch wood - rarely gets injured and ends up on the treatment table for longer than a week or two.

If Pique doesn't get his chance next year he will leave. We may get the chance to loan Evans out for another 12months but I wouldn't say Sunderland is the best place for him. Also, they can only loan one player from Utd and are rumoured to be eyeing up Simpson.

I still say you must bite the bullet sometime and next season - IMO - is the best opportunity to do just that. The pressure - to an extent - has been lifted.

I personally think both Evans and Pique will comfortably get 15 starts each next year. If either end up on loan again I'm not expecting them back and that'd be a damn shame because we'd end up having to throw money at a defensive problem in a year or two. Bar Evra and Vidic we don't exactly have a wealth of young promising defenders.

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

We took that chance in 95. Early on we paid the price a little, but it worked in the long run.
We are at the point with a few of these kids where we have to go one way or the other. Either show them some faith and trust them or get rid!

They're still young, though. I don't see why they can't have another year elsewhere and then come back. I think we're dealing with a very different level of competition to 95. Not only was the Premiership vastly inferior back then, but there was far less of a European expectation.

These days, one slip-up can cost you dearly. Can you honestly see Fergie, at any stage during the season, resting/dropping Vidic or Ferdinand to give Evans or Pique any kind of run in the side? I can't see it happening, certainly not regularly enough for both to get a good amount of football.

I don't see whay that's a problem. If you think he'll be worried about Pique and Evans getting a chance I'd argue I'd be just as worried seeing either Rio/Vidic/Gary rested to see Wes or Tweetie in the starting line up (both almost nailed on to £#%&! up once or twice in a match). The same applies to O'Shea, failing to pick up a ruuner from the back post or not stopping a cross coming into the box.

All of our reserves are calamity candidates. They're as likely to £#%&! up as the new boys even more so in some cases.

I've watched Pique a fair bit in Spain this year and he looks a very confident player. Very very good in fact. I'm not sure I could say the same about Tweetie or even O'Shea in that league. He deserves a spot IMO and will have to get it next year or else he'll leave.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

You would think Chelsea will be better this year, chances are it is going to be neck-and-neck all season. How often, in the Premiership or Europe, is Fergie likely to break up the first choice central defensive partnership of Rio and Vidic to try out a kid like Evans or Pique. If he is tempted or forced into a change, he'll go for the experience of Brown.

Perhaps these guys could play the odd game at full-back, but I just can't see there being enough opportunities for both of them to progress next season.

It's not good for these guys to be playing in the reserves at their age. They need to be playing regular first team football. Evans playing for Sunderland next season against Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal etc would be far more useful for his development that the odd game for us against shite teams at Old Trafford, where he'll barely be tested.

That's assuming he isn't sold before the season starts though