Agents.

Football is taking on a whole new landscape. Most of us who have followed United for years have been proud that our club was seen as the pinnacle of a players progress, at least domestically. Even in the barren years of the 70's and 80's you still got the impression that if United were in the hunt then we would usually get our man, but this is happening less and less as time goes by. Some want to blame specific individuals, but I think the truth is a bit more complicated than that. The days of players wanting to join United because of the prestige and history are almost over, and the main reason is agents.

Agents run the game these days, plain and simple. They are as slick and cunning as the players themselves are thick. These weasels, whispering in the ears of dimwits like a modern day Wormtongue care nothing for the game and everything about their bank balance, and the flow of players is reflecting this more than ever. Players go where agents direct them.

Other fans may rant on about how we don't like it now the shoe is on the other foot, how we had it our own way for years, but this is different. Now these agents are not content only to manufacture transfers that swell their bank accounts, but barely let the player himself lace up a pair of boots before they are sowing discord in preparation for the next one. They are a £#%&!ing disease. I'll never be convinced that Stretford wasn't behind the Rooney episode, and we know what magic Joorabchian has weaved for Tevez.

Fifa, Uefa and the Fa hold themselves out there as the bastions and protectors of the game, well I think the simplest and most protective thing they could do is to ban the agents. Legislate that all registered players must be represented by the PFA of that country and no one else, and agents fees are fixed no matter what the transfer fee. That way you keep the money in the game, give employment prospects to ex-players who would care more about the player's vested interests anyway, and immediately sever the malelolent influence of parties who care nothing about the game itself. You can't chase down agents and deals on a case by case basis, they are just too slick. You want to address bungs? Good, then address all bungs.

It's simple, effective and if the players don't like being separated from their protective blankets who cares? Grow up and stop being puppets.

Agents are all @#%&!s, but Fergie's happy to deal with certain ones (Jason, Mendes). No idea why though.

Originally Posted by Agent Dale Cooper

Agents are all @#%&!s, but Fergie's happy to deal with certain ones (Jason, Mendes). No idea why though.

You're not. Can't you have a word?

Seriously though, four, five, six million quid... for what? Once it gets to those levels then no one can tell me that's good for the game.

They're £#%&!ing nothing but leeches. Having an agent who's in pocket is becoming a necessary evil otherwise you end up with a Pogba situation. Clubs can only have so many in pocket and agents will favour certain clubs due to conflicts of interest. £#%&!ing stinks to high heaven. In real terms these @#%&!s do very £#%&!ing little if you're a top footballer apart from take money off you. Get a solicitor and make an informed/impartial decision you ball kicking #@&%!s, or perhaps use your free time to educate yourself.

Football stinks from the non league clubs with owners spending money they haven't got causing teams to be relegated to the top where any old shit with a sugar Daddy can win the top prizes in the game. It became fashionable, it became sanitised the big money crept in and now we have nothing more than leeching @#%&!s who couldn't give a £#%&! about the game itself becoming obscenely wealthy by exploiting (wrong word perhaps) thick @#%&!s who just happen to be good at kicking a ball.

With each passing year with each transfer/wage record broke, with each undeserving millionaire made off the back off another's talent the game I fell in love with feels further and further away from me.

Originally Posted by utd99

Seriously though, four, five, six million quid... for what? Once it gets to those levels then no one can tell me that's good for the game.

Recruitment agents earn similar amounts, SSg2 is £#%&!in minted.

S'all about the middle man these days.

Originally Posted by utd99

You're not. Can't you have a word?

It is revolting how they have helped to reshape the game into its current state, but they're too deeply embedded now. It's difficult to see football without them. The managers are culpable as well because they've helped to facilitate it whether it be getting their sons involved (Ferguson, Allardyce) or by becoming clients of leeches like Joorabchian (Hughes), or even just a good old fashioned bung (Graham).

Every day I find myself falling a little bit out of love with football, and I don't think it's being a mard arse because of United's decline in general. I just get much enjoyment watching games. As a kid football was my life, but now I'm getting to the point where I can't be arsed to watch the Euros. Maybe it's just a case of becoming jaded with age (look at No Fun?) but the beautiful game just doesn't seem quite so beautiful any more...

Oh, and an old but interesting look at the Tevez 'saga' - http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/davi...attle-revealed

Agree with Crumps.

A lot of agents are former players and they aren't @#%&!s. They're just out to get the best for their clients who have a very short shelf-life. Let's make no mistake, football clubs are utter @#%&!s too and the number of players who have been taken advantage of by clubs over the years is incalculable.

The most powerful agents, though - those representing the top players - are indeed leeches and very bad for the game.

Originally Posted by Grimson

A lot of agents are former players and they aren't @#%&!s. They're just out to get the best for their clients who have a very short shelf-life. Let's make no mistake, football clubs are utter @#%&!s too and the number of players who have been taken advantage of by clubs over the years is incalculable.

The most powerful agents, though - those representing the top players - are indeed leeches and very bad for the game.

Aye, not really got a problem with the ex-pro, down with the PFA types tbh who often look after lower league sorts and the last talented lads out there. It's the greed and snideyness that comes with the top dogs and the way they go about snapping up younger players and influencing them, then if these players don't develop how they had hoped they'll be dropped like a blonde in a Bar with Stan Collymore and be left £#%&!ed after their bridges have been burned by people/clubs that actually cared about them in the first place.

Just another £#%&!ed up thing that's wrong with this £#%&!ed up game in this £#%&!ed up world.

Originally Posted by Crumps

Aye, not really got a problem with the ex-pro, down with the PFA types tbh who often look after lower league sorts and the last talented lads out there. It's the greed and snideyness that comes with the top dogs and the way they go about snapping up younger players and influencing them, then if these players don't develop how they had hoped they'll be dropped like a blonde in a Bar with Stan Collymore and be left £#%&!ed after their bridges have been burned by people/clubs that actually cared about them in the first place.

Just another £#%&!ed up thing that's wrong with this £#%&!ed up game in this £#%&!ed up world.

Originally Posted by Grimson

A lot of agents are former players and they aren't @#%&!s. They're just out to get the best for their clients who have a very short shelf-life. Let's make no mistake, football clubs are utter @#%&!s too and the number of players who have been taken advantage of by clubs over the years is incalculable.

The most powerful agents, though - those representing the top players - are indeed leeches and very bad for the game.

This Hazard episode stunk of agent. From the twitter harvesting to the 'reasoning' the player used. The agent has made his client look like a mug (assurances about playing time and position...from who?) and I'm confident had very little concern about the best environment for the player.

Originally Posted by utd99

This Hazard episode stunk of agent. From the twitter harvesting to the 'reasoning' the player used. The agent has made his client look like a mug (assurances about playing time and position...from who?) and I'm confident had very little concern about the best environment for the player.

Yeah I hear you, but that'll be completely forgotten within days. Agents know there's always a next big story. He got his player an enormous amount of money and security - that's his job.

Originally Posted by Grimson

A lot of agents are former players and they aren't @#%&!s.

Agreed. So why not have them represent all the current players. It would create jobs for ex-pros and regulate the industry, making underhanded deals much less common and easier to detect. The agents would get paid through the union.

Either the authorities don't recognize the dangers these people represent, or they're on the take too.

a lot of this goes back to the bosman ruling, just one of many unforeseen consequences of that. football lacks regulation, right through from player level (the transfer circus, agents, lack of support for ex-pros with injuries etc) to club level (debt, financial doping, player poaching, match rigging).

it is possible to regulate within the game - look how the bundesliga operates, for example:

• A minimum of 51% of each club must be owned by the club's members
• Club members have the ability to directly affect the running of the club
• A season ticket for Borussia Dortmund costs £152 for 17 domestic home games and one European game
• Average attendance in the Bundesliga last season was 42,690 (7,000 more than the Premier League)
• Television revenue is distributed on a much more equal basis
• Due to the financial regulations imposed, Bundesliga clubs are less prone to signing players for exorbitant transfer fees

i get plenty of stick for saying that the bundesliga is the best league in the world, all part of the fred schtick and that but it really is a model that the rest should learn from. and the bundesliga's regulation is all the more laudable when you consider that clubs like bayern or dortmund know full well that they are effectively hamstringing themselves in competition with rivals from england, spain or italy who have no such restrictions, but are still willing to follow their principles unilaterally.

it is possible, all that is required is the will to do it.

[SIZE="5"]The German Grass Looks Much Greener...

Despite the constant claims from jingoistic pundits and journalists that the Premier League is the 'bestest League in the world', amongst the majority there is an acceptance of the evident flaws present within the English game. With Serie A and La Liga also experiencing recent difficulties (principally in terms of finances and a lack of competition), Germany's Bundesliga is, in certain quarters, being viewed as the forerunner of European football.

Such a success story is largely due to the stable financial nature of the league, and German football is the sporting model for good governance. There are no 'wealthy' foreign investors or Fit and Proper Persons test, no points deductions for voluntary administrations, and clubs don't attack the transfer market like a student with a new loan instalment in freshers' week.

Instead, financial stability is ensured through the innovative '50+1 rule', instigated by the German Football Federation (DFB). The basis for this model is that a minimum of 51% of each club must be owned by the club's members. There is the potential for significant investment of external parties, but such investors are prevented from having overall direction of the club. The boards of Bundesliga clubs are chosen by the shareholders, and therefore club members have the ability to directly affect the running of the club. In addition to such structure, the DFB also implements tight restrictions on the percentage of turnover that can be spent on players' wages, negating the likelihood for clubs to live vastly beyond their means.

The ability to influence the managerial decision-making within the club makes supporting a Bundesliga club an attractive prospect. It has the lowest ticket prices of Europe's top five leagues (Dortmund have tickets available in their huge Die Südtribüne for around £10), away teams receive ten per cent of home capacity, individual home tickets contain a free rail pass and fans are able to drink reasonably priced beer as they worship at their football temple of choice. A season ticket for Borussia Dortmund costs £152 for 17 domestic home games and one European game. Is this not paradise?

Unsurprisingly, such an inviting atmosphere attracts an impressive number of supporters, and the average attendance in the Bundesliga last season was 42,690. That's over 7,000 more than the Premier League, 13,000 more than La Liga and 18,000 more than Serie A. Across world sport, only the American NFL has higher average attendances, and of the top 20 supported football clubs in Europe last season, nine were from Germany.

Due to the financial regulations imposed, Bundesliga clubs are less prone to signing players for exorbitant transfer fees, and in the last year only two players have been signed by German clubs for a fee greater than ten million Euros, both purchased by Bayern Munich (Manuel Neuer and Jerome Boateng). The DFB and Bundesliga created a rule a decade ago dictating that in order to gain a license to play in the top tier, each club must run an education academy for youth players. German clubs therefore seemingly prefer to develop and sculpt their young, home-grown talent, leading to remarkable results. Nineteen of Germany's 23-man squad for the 2010 World Cup were the product of Bundesliga academies, and of their last named squad of 20 players, 13 were under 25.

Germany's success at the 2010 World Cup with a young group (the average age of player in the squad was over three-and-a -half years younger than England's) and subsequent impeccable qualification for Euro 2012 is a testament to the sustainable excellence of the German model for domestic football. Young players are continuously and consistently given experience at the top level, demonstrated by league leaders Dortmund. Of the 14 players used during their victory over Bayern Munich in November, only four were over 24 years of age, an almost alien concept within Premier League football.

In addition, the Bundesliga has another crucial difference to the Premier League, in that the television revenue is distributed on a much more equal basis, an initiative to instigate increased competition within the league. Although Bayern Munich continue to raise significant income through sponsorship and marketing (and are thus the most successful team through this use of their brand) the Bundesliga is one of Europe's most competitive leagues, and has had four different winners in the last five seasons. More starkly, ten different clubs have finished in the top four of the Bundesliga in the last five seasons. The Premier League can boast a total of just six (with Spurs and Manchester City adding to the traditional 'Big Four'). This competition also provides the prospect of the fairytale story, and when Wolfsburg won the title in 2009 they had finished the previous season in 15th. Somehow I suspect Villa fans have accepted that next year will not end in title success.

The only current criticism of German football is the performance of their clubs in Europe. Bayern Munich's appearance in the Champions League final in 2009 is the only such occurrence in the last decade, and the same figure is true for the Europa League (or UEFA Cup), with Werder Bremen losing in the same year. Could the tight financial regulations be holding back the performance of German clubs in Europe? Whilst this may be a possibility, it must be said that the Bundesliga had as many representatives in the last 16 of the Champions league as England, Spain and France.

Moreover, the introduction of UEFA's Financial Fair Play rules may well reveal the substantial extent to which the Bundesliga's competitors have been utilising an uneven economic playing field, and it may well be that German clubs are about to have their time in the continental sun. If the rules continue to provide loopholes for those that live beyond their means, German clubs will have to make do with the moral high ground and financial security (not to mention a hungry and successful international team).

Thankfully, the temptation to forget principles in favour of prizes has been forsaken, and German clubs have voted to keep their precious 50+1 rule. To quote Dutch journalist Leander Schaerlaeckens, the German clubs will be content to "survive without liabilities in the long run and with mediocre on-field success...rather than being successful on the pitch in the short run, but being dead in the long run." Fans of Portsmouth, Darlington and Port Vale, amongst numerous others, may well applaud such a mindset. For football purists, the Bundesliga remains an appealing and attractive illustration of domestic football.

http://www.football365.com/f365-feat...-Looks-Greener...

Personally I blame Thatcher.

average attendance was actually 45k in the bundesliga last season borsurs. astonishing.

good season review for those who missed it:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/b...desliga-review

*WARNING* - has large picture of Kagawa at top

Originally Posted by I_Am_Paul_Parker

average attendance was actually 45k in the bundesliga last season borsurs. astonishing.

good season review for those who missed it:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/b...desliga-review

*WARNING* - has large picture of Kagawa at top

the article was from last season, i think. not just the numbers though, the prices are low enough for real fans to afford to go. you can take your beer to with you, stand on a safe terrace, the atmospheres piss all over england tbh.

Originally Posted by borsuk

the article was from last season, i think. not just the numbers though, the prices are low enough for real fans to afford to go. you can take your beer to with you, stand on a safe terrace, the atmospheres piss all over england tbh.

Yeah, I've been banging on for years about how good the German league is, from top to bottom it's easily the best league in Europe.

Yet everybody wants to copy the Spanish model wherever it be at Youth level or how to run a club these days. :shakehead:

Originally Posted by borsuk

the article was from last season, i think. not just the numbers though, the prices are low enough for real fans to afford to go. you can take your beer to with you, stand on a safe terrace, the atmospheres piss all over england tbh.

Oh yeah I completely agree, decent singing sections ( ), good prices, top terrace bantz. Germany is where it's at.

Originally Posted by teflon_terry

Personally I blame Thatcher.

Always a highly sensible default position, tbf