motd now

Originally Posted by wonky no

to be fair though it's never been legal to put your hands on someones shoulders. pederson obviously thought the pen was nailed on and collapsed. it was a pen. we got a freekick for the same thing before it.

Erm, I'm pretty sure it is legal to put your hands on someone's shoulder actually.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Why did he touch him? He was trying to put him off, technically it may have been a foul but I can not stand the moral outrage over Ronaldo's dive but the acceptance of what Pedersen did. No way on earth does the minimal contact force him to ground, it was a conscious choice to thrown himself to the floor, it is a dive , not as blatant but the same thought process is at work.

During the first half today Nani was harrying Diouf inot the corner, minimal contact he goes down, Ekoku praises Diouf for having done well to milk it. 2 mins later he complains that you only have to breathe on Ronaldo for him to go down. How do these 2 incidents work with consistent standards applicable?

the one in the box is the only one that counts. ronaldo wasn't touched at all, total make believe on his part.

Originally Posted by Ether

Erm, I'm pretty sure it is legal to put your hands on someone's shoulder actually.

is it?

He went down far too easily, that's all there is to it. Waited for the toucch and collapsed, ref £#%&!ed him off for being a tart. Quite rightly.

The hand on the shoulder didn't impede him or knock him off balance, it couldn't possibly have knocked him over, would have been incredibly soft.

Important game in the education of young Rafael, had a £#%&!ing nightmare at times, Rio was babysitting for most of the 2nd half caused us a few problems. Will have done him the World of good.

Originally Posted by wonky no

the one in the box is the only one that counts. ronaldo wasn't touched at all, total make believe on his part.

But how is that different from Pedersen really? Neither have enough contact on them to impede, obstruct or in any way force them to loose their footing.They both make a choice to go down hoping to gain an advantage.

It seems a double standard is at work, some dives are acceptable as along as we can pretend that they are not a dive, a 9 stone Brazilian knocking over Pedersen by brushing his shoulders with his fingers is someohow a logical outcome.

To make it clear I do not really care about diving, every player does it, sometimes it is neccessary in order to avoid dangerous tackles, usually it is tactical and it has always been in the game, amking cerain players or nations scapegoats for it is idiotic IMO.

players going down at the slightest touch is nothing new

tv cameras not being able to see some of those slightest touches is nothing new either

players fall over if the defender's boot clips their own. it's cheating but it happens all the time.

John Barnes, Charity Shield, 1990, for example.


MotD did show the disallowed goal. And Shearer said at the end that he thought the United'd done just enough to deserve the 3pts.

pretty spot on analysis really.

the ridiculous media scrutiny on Ronaldo is irrelevant. it sells 'papers to fools who keep going back for more.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

players going down at the slightest touch is nothing new

tv cameras not being able to see some of those slightest touches is nothing new either

players fall over if the defender's boot clips their own. it's cheating but it happens all the time.

John Barnes, Charity Shield, 1990, for example.


MotD did show the disallowed goal. And Shearer said at the end that he thought the United'd done just enough to deserve the 3pts.

pretty spot on analysis really.

the ridiculous media scrutiny on Ronaldo is irrelevant. it sells 'papers to fools who keep going back for more.

did they show it in their analysis though?

Originally Posted by Tiberian

But how is that different from Pedersen really? Neither have enough contact on them to impede, obstruct or in any way force them to loose their footing.They both make a choice to go down hoping to gain an advantage.

It seems a double standard is at work, some dives are acceptable as along as we can pretend that they are not a dive, a 9 stone Brazilian knocking over Pedersen by brushing his shoulders with his fingers is someohow a logical outcome.

To make it clear I do not really care about diving, every player does it, sometimes it is neccessary in order to avoid dangerous tackles, usually it is tactical and it has always been in the game, amking cerain players or nations scapegoats for it is idiotic IMO.

rafael had no reason to put his hands on pedersons shoulders other than to impede him, therefore he's showing intent. at least thats the way i see it.

Originally Posted by wonky no

did they show it in their analysis though?

thet showed it in the highlights of the match

Originally Posted by wonky no

rafael had no reason to put his hands on pedersons shoulders other than to impede him, therefore he's showing intent. at least thats the way i see it.

It was £#%&! all, he went down very easily. If Ronnie had done that he would of been vilified.

Originally Posted by wonky no

rafael had no reason to put his hands on pedersons shoulders other than to impede him, therefore he's showing intent. at least thats the way i see it.

Takes us dangerously close to a non contact sport that opinion. With that reasoning could you also say that the defender sticking his leg out shows an intent to foul and Ronaldo or any other player does not need to be touched to justify going down?














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Originally Posted by wonky no

rafael had no reason to put his hands on pedersons shoulders other than to impede him, therefore he's showing intent. at least thats the way i see it.

that's not quite right tbh

the best way to make sure you don't impede an opponent in close contact sport is to set a physical boundary. and the safest way to do that is by touch - they've been doing that on the continent for decades. it's very very easy in Rafael's position to accidentally clash legs, tread on feet or to barge the opponent. pedersen cheated, simple as that for me.

normally you'd say "I've seen them given", but I can't think of any right now(?)

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

thet showed it in the highlights of the match

To me that shows how penalties being denied get people more annoyed than goals being disallowed, which is just bizarre. It goes for all clubs too, not just United.

Originally Posted by Zorg

To me that shows how penalties being denied get people more annoyed than goals being disallowed, which is just bizarre. It goes for all clubs too, not just United.

can you imagine what it'd be like if they ever let TV decide if it's a penalty or not?

complete £#%&!ing nightmare.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Takes us dangerously close to a non contact sport that opinion. With that reasoning could you also say that the defender sticking his leg out shows an intent to foul and Ronaldo or any other player does not need to be touched to justify going down?

its a fine line, i agree. the thing is if a defender sticks their leg out and there is no contact but the attacker goes down, it could be argued that the defender made a genuine attempt and the dive is unsporting. if the defender makes contact but not with the ball, its a foul because the defender miss times his challenge.

regarding contact, you are only really allowed to shoulder charge and make contact if you make contact with the ball before or at the same time as taking the man.

Originally Posted by Zorg

To me that shows how penalties being denied get people more annoyed than goals being disallowed, which is just bizarre. It goes for all clubs too, not just United.

File alongside offside goals being allowed causing more consternation than onside goals being given as offside.

Moves being called back because of incorrect offside calls really bugs me. A striker can be right though on goal, but the whistle goes, does not shoot and the fact that a golden chance was stolen from him will normally be forgotten.

Ferdinand was penalised for a real soft one at portsmouth the week after Rooney's dive over Campbell a couple of years back.

so expect a penalty to be given when Vidic blows Torres a kiss

Originally Posted by wonky no

its a fine line, i agree. the thing is if a defender sticks their leg out and there is no contact but the attacker goes down, it could be argued that the defender made a genuine attempt and the dive is unsporting. if the defender makes contact but not with the ball, its a foul because the defender miss times his challenge.

regarding contact, you are only really allowed to shoulder charge and make contact if you make contact with the ball before or at the same time as taking the man.

But then you have what goes on at set pieces to contend with, grappling., obstrucion of runs, blatant holding, standing on players toes to stop them jumping, not exactly shoulder charges and impossible to stop really.

Every player is looking to push the limit of what they can get away with, Throb's physcial boundary point is an interesting example of this.

anyone got the goals?

Originally Posted by silv

anyone got the goals?

http://www.101greatgoals.com/videodisplay/2122968